We've all heard the 'conventional' wisdom that most of your wear occurs on startup. But is it really that bad? We've been running hybrids for over a decade now and I've not seen any higher rate of engine failures in hybrid vehicles that consistently start/stop
Morning Thoughts - Are start/stops really that bad?
- Thread starter SnowDrifter
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If I'm in line at Costco I turn my engine off (if it's not 100 out) rather than idle. Don't think that causes wear-- it's starting a cold engine. Don't hybrids cycle on and off without cooling down?
I work on the road and my car can cool down considerably between customer visits with multiple stops per day in the winter. I have had 0 longevity problems and have great UOA's showing quite low metal ppm.
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Don't hybrids have features to account for this stuff? Thermos-like chambers to keep a ready supply of warm coolant and/or oil, ECU programming to keep a certain amount of runtime on the engine, etc.?
Also, I'm pretty sure those engines are optimized differently so that they burn very cleanly in the regimes (load, RPM, temp, etc.) in which they operate most. I'm sure they operate in a narrower band of regimes, too.
If nothing else, I'd imagine the start/stop stress would be at least partly offset by the fact that the engine just doesn't have to run as much or as hard.
Also, I'm pretty sure those engines are optimized differently so that they burn very cleanly in the regimes (load, RPM, temp, etc.) in which they operate most. I'm sure they operate in a narrower band of regimes, too.
If nothing else, I'd imagine the start/stop stress would be at least partly offset by the fact that the engine just doesn't have to run as much or as hard.
I my opinion only cold starts are bad. For the warmed up engine, it doesn't matter.
Originally Posted by SnowDrifter
We've all heard the 'conventional' wisdom that most of your wear occurs on startup.
On cold startup. Once the engine is warmed up, it doesn't matter much.
We've all heard the 'conventional' wisdom that most of your wear occurs on startup.
On cold startup. Once the engine is warmed up, it doesn't matter much.
I have this on my Fusion. It never fails....as soon as I stop at a light and the engine shuts off, the light immediately turns green. It's also a pain in the rear in a drive-thru line. Off on off on off on. I usually hit the button to disable it then.
A running engine has minimal wear because? Come on BITOG guys I read your posts. A cold engine has wear when starting and during warm up because? Remember I read your posts recommending the best oil and filters. And even though minimal warm starting wear is "more" because? Again I read your posts giving advice.
I don't think Start / Stop devices are "bad". I am under the belief they don't accomplish that much in regards to fuel savings, for what their additional complexity involves. If I saved 3% on gas, (assuming you believe they save that much), for me it's not worth putting up with the complexity of Stop / Start. I doubt this is a feature the automakers would have tried to sell to the buying public on their own. Government involvement helped push it. And I would have concerns, as many do, it would increase wear to the point that it would erase any long term fuel savings. In short, I would not want a vehicle equipped with it. And I am glad mine don't have it.
Start/Stop is much more affective if the motor stops during braking, (eoc) given many cars employ DFCO they are partway there already
https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/best-mpg-eoc-without-eoc-3841.html
There are few issues with the starter wearing out, most modern cars already have very robust starters and the battery, vacuum reserve and a variety of other metrics are monitored .
I have shut my car off for many years to save fuel, never remember replacing a starter on any car.
Ideal start stop is like the Honda IMA as you can eliminate the alternator and the motor could start and stop while in motion.
https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/best-mpg-eoc-without-eoc-3841.html
There are few issues with the starter wearing out, most modern cars already have very robust starters and the battery, vacuum reserve and a variety of other metrics are monitored .
I have shut my car off for many years to save fuel, never remember replacing a starter on any car.
Ideal start stop is like the Honda IMA as you can eliminate the alternator and the motor could start and stop while in motion.
Originally Posted by billt460
I don't think Start / Stop devices are "bad". I am under the belief they don't accomplish that much in regards to fuel savings, for what their additional complexity involves. If I saved 3% on gas, (assuming you believe they save that much), for me it's not worth putting up with the complexity of Stop / Start. I doubt this is a feature the automakers would have tried to sell to the buying public on their own. Government involvement helped push it. And I would have concerns, as many do, it would increase wear to the point that it would erase any long term fuel savings. In short, I would not want a vehicle equipped with it. And I am glad mine don't have it.
CAFE
I don't think Start / Stop devices are "bad". I am under the belief they don't accomplish that much in regards to fuel savings, for what their additional complexity involves. If I saved 3% on gas, (assuming you believe they save that much), for me it's not worth putting up with the complexity of Stop / Start. I doubt this is a feature the automakers would have tried to sell to the buying public on their own. Government involvement helped push it. And I would have concerns, as many do, it would increase wear to the point that it would erase any long term fuel savings. In short, I would not want a vehicle equipped with it. And I am glad mine don't have it.
CAFE
Originally Posted by CT8
Originally Posted by billt460
I don't think Start / Stop devices are "bad". I am under the belief they don't accomplish that much in regards to fuel savings, for what their additional complexity involves. If I saved 3% on gas, (assuming you believe they save that much), for me it's not worth putting up with the complexity of Stop / Start. I doubt this is a feature the automakers would have tried to sell to the buying public on their own. Government involvement helped push it. And I would have concerns, as many do, it would increase wear to the point that it would erase any long term fuel savings. In short, I would not want a vehicle equipped with it. And I am glad mine don't have it.
CAFE
No, haven't you heard ?
the mention of CAFE (and the behaviour of the OEMS that arise)is a conspiracy...or so I've been told
Originally Posted by billt460
I don't think Start / Stop devices are "bad". I am under the belief they don't accomplish that much in regards to fuel savings, for what their additional complexity involves. If I saved 3% on gas, (assuming you believe they save that much), for me it's not worth putting up with the complexity of Stop / Start. I doubt this is a feature the automakers would have tried to sell to the buying public on their own. Government involvement helped push it. And I would have concerns, as many do, it would increase wear to the point that it would erase any long term fuel savings. In short, I would not want a vehicle equipped with it. And I am glad mine don't have it.
CAFE
No, haven't you heard ?
the mention of CAFE (and the behaviour of the OEMS that arise)is a conspiracy...or so I've been told
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