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Re: Can't Shift to into First gear while moving [Re: NICAT] #4741483 04/28/18 02:14 PM
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mk378 Online Content
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Make sure you're using the proper transmission fluid. Heavy gear oil that is used in trucks is not appropriate for many cars.

If with the car stopped, you can get into reverse without it grinding, the clutch is OK.

Re: Can't Shift to into First gear while moving [Re: mk378] #4741485 04/28/18 02:21 PM
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NICAT Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: mk378
Make sure you're using the proper transmission fluid. Heavy gear oil that is used in trucks is not appropriate for many cars.

If with the car stopped, you can get into reverse without it grinding, the clutch is OK.


Good point.
sometime i can't shift to reverse. So i push the knob hard, but doesn't help. then i slightly release the clutch pedal while pushing the knob. and just then i am able to shift to reverse.

Re: Can't Shift to into First gear while moving [Re: NICAT] #4741486 04/28/18 02:24 PM
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mk378 Online Content
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That is OK. Sometimes the transmission stops midway on a gear tooth and you have to do that. I was saying to notice if the gears keep grinding even though the clutch is pushed in. That means that the clutch is not stopping the input shaft.

Last edited by mk378; 04/28/18 02:24 PM.
Re: Can't Shift to into First gear while moving [Re: NICAT] #4741487 04/28/18 02:27 PM
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I suggest changing the fluid. Try Pennzoil syncromesh or similar.


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Re: Can't Shift to into First gear while moving [Re: NICAT] #4741492 04/28/18 02:41 PM
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Meanwhile, we still donít know what kind of car it is, nor if the gearbox/transaxle oil was changed recently. Thatís the cheapest and fastest thing to try...


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Re: Can't Shift to into First gear while moving [Re: NICAT] #4741507 04/28/18 03:01 PM
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Most newer cars have a 1-R synchro. The transmission in my 1990 MY Mazda does, for example, and that was used in Ford trucks dating back to the 80's. The 01 Chrysler does as well.

Double-Clutching you can shift almost anything without synchromesh, even in ancient manual transmissions with no synchros in any gear, so learn that skill.

You do still need to match revs when downshifting with synchros. Also, syncromesh requires a certain amount of time before they will be at the proper speed; that is why racing transmissions don't have them (no wait time required if revs match).

So slow down your shifting regimen and see if that helps. Engage the clutch, blip your throttle to rev match, hold the clutch in until it slips easily into gear and then declutch. Generally a syncho needs somewhere around 1~2 seconds to work as intended.

Rev matching is important, done right you don't even need to use the clutch, but it's a skill that requires some learning time.


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Re: Can't Shift to into First gear while moving [Re: NICAT] #4741594 04/28/18 05:00 PM
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On hard shifting cars (and trucks), the first thing I try is a fluid change. Just try ATF and see if it makes a noticeable change ... You can them go to any fluid that works as well, if you want.

I have had many friends who run ATF in manuals for fuel economy (same as CAFE oils for engines) and they have logged well over 100,000 miles w/o incident. Usually too noisy for me, but always a good test fluid smile


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Can't Shift to into First gear while moving [Re: NICAT] #4741599 04/28/18 05:17 PM
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chrome Offline
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Originally Posted By: NICAT
Thanks for replies and good advices.
My car anyway has 1M km on it. The transmission should be worn a lot.


Maybe we missed this, but OP has 1 M km, which I am guessing is million, which is 660,000 miles on his car. Even if he has synchros in 1 and R, it would be pretty worn at this mileage.

Swap new fluid in, check all shifter cables and bushings, if it doesn't improve the shifting then time to consider a lower mileage transmission.

Re: Can't Shift to into First gear while moving [Re: NICAT] #4741649 04/28/18 06:46 PM
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ecotourist Offline
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Some transmissions have synchronizers for first gear, and some (especially older vehicles) do not. By testing 2 similar vehicles it seems yours has them.

Both of my signature vehicles have synchronizers in first gear. But I wouldn't try to shift into first gear with either one above 5 Km/hr or so, that is not much faster than barely moving.

Double clutching and rev matching should help a lot. If I were you I'd practice double clutching and rev matching on level ground with your current transmission before resorting to replacing the transmission. You should be able to learn how to shift into first gear using them, whether or not you have good synchronizers. You can replace the transmission later if needs be.

Replacing transmission fluid and replacing and bleeding your clutch fluid (if it's a hydraulic system) would be sensible.


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Re: Can't Shift to into First gear while moving [Re: Lolvoguy] #4741650 04/28/18 06:46 PM
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bigjl Offline
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Originally Posted By: Lolvoguy
Your not supposed to be able to access first gear when moving.
It's a safety feature that has been implemented into the design. Older cars generally don't have this feature


Who told you that?

Its more likely the OP has a clutch issue.

I have driven manuals for 30years and never heard of a "safety feature" that stops a vehicle going into 1st when moving.

Even with a vehicle that has no synchro on 1st you can get into gear when moving.

If this feature does exist then how are drivers supposed to shift into 1st on approaching a junction?


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Re: Can't Shift to into First gear while moving [Re: Kamele0N] #4741658 04/28/18 06:53 PM
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bigjl Offline
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Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
1st & reverse are often without sychros...thats normal...


More than a few gearboxes have no synchro on reverse, Ford was the first to introduce a synchro in reverse that I know of.

The MT75 in rwd cars was first, followed in 92 by the MTX75 in FWD cars.

The last vehicle I drove that had no synchro on 1st gear was a 1966 Austin A40 mk2 Farina.

But in the 60's no 1st gear synchro was fairly common.

But now?

Could you give some examples of modern vehicles with no 1st gear synchro?


16 S350d LWB 25k Mobil Super 3000 XE 5w30
17 Smart ForFour Auto 6.5k Mobil 1 0w40 FS
Re: Can't Shift to into First gear while moving [Re: NICAT] #4741660 04/28/18 06:54 PM
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bigjl Offline
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I would look at the clutch and associated components first.

Just as the mechanics have suggested when they suspected the clutch pressure plate.

What vehicle is it?

Last edited by bigjl; 04/28/18 06:56 PM.

16 S350d LWB 25k Mobil Super 3000 XE 5w30
17 Smart ForFour Auto 6.5k Mobil 1 0w40 FS
Re: Can't Shift to into First gear while moving [Re: NICAT] #4741675 04/28/18 07:07 PM
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The OP has 1 MILLION kilometers on the vehicle.

I'm pretty sure we found our answer: Something is worn out.

Re: Can't Shift to into First gear while moving [Re: NICAT] #4742044 04/29/18 06:08 AM
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thanks for great answers.
When the car is in neutral, it goes forward very slowly(not always). Does it give any clue ?
Transmission is also overfilled with oil. (This is an old report from mechanic, i didn't mind it at that time, thinking if some is good, then more is (not better), but not that bad) smile
But the oil was in a good condition. Not dark.
But if the oil is the cause, i would also be interested to know how overfilling oil cause hard shifting.
I will try to replace the oil.


Last edited by NICAT; 04/29/18 06:16 AM.
Re: Can't Shift to into First gear while moving [Re: NICAT] #4742159 04/29/18 09:19 AM
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bigjl Offline
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Originally Posted By: NICAT
thanks for great answers.
When the car is in neutral, it goes forward very slowly(not always). Does it give any clue ?
Transmission is also overfilled with oil. (This is an old report from mechanic, i didn't mind it at that time, thinking if some is good, then more is (not better), but not that bad) smile
But the oil was in a good condition. Not dark.
But if the oil is the cause, i would also be interested to know how overfilling oil cause hard shifting.
I will try to replace the oil.



Your clutch is dragging. A slightly high oil level in a manual box won't make a big difference to how the gearbox shifts, using the wrong oil might.

As your mechanics have said.

Change the clutch.

Continuing to drive it like this could causw damage to your gearbox long term.

I wouldn't even consider changing or stripping the gearbox until I had changed the clutch.

And don't cheap out, do the whole clutch.

Pressure plate, release bearing and friction plate.

What car is it?

Last edited by bigjl; 04/29/18 09:22 AM.

16 S350d LWB 25k Mobil Super 3000 XE 5w30
17 Smart ForFour Auto 6.5k Mobil 1 0w40 FS
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