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Octane, Ethanol, and Dilution #4729315
04/16/18 07:36 PM
04/16/18 07:36 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 17
NC
Isophix Offline OP
Isophix  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 17
NC
I bought a 2018 Hyundai Elantra Sport a couple of weeks ago, and have been zipping around in it.

Got about 900 miles on it now.

Checked the oil today, smells like a fuel factory.

I have been putting 90 octane, ethanol-free Valero (a recommended Top-Tier branded) gasoline in it.


Does octane and/or ethanol levels play any role in dilution, or are they unrelated?

What steps can be taken to mitigate dilution?


The reason I like the higher octane and the ethanol free is supposedly they help prevent LSPI.

Re: Octane, Ethanol, and Dilution [Re: Isophix] #4729328
04/16/18 07:46 PM
04/16/18 07:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 289
Georgia
Charlie2015 Offline
Charlie2015  Offline
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 289
Georgia
I do a lot of oil changes. Almost all DI engines smell like fuel in the oil. That is no matter what make.


1998 Honda Accord EX 2.3L Auto (Sold) 214k mi
2009 Scion tC Manual (Daily Driver) 165k mi
Re: Octane, Ethanol, and Dilution [Re: Isophix] #4729330
04/16/18 07:49 PM
04/16/18 07:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 6,575
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 6,575
...
Reduce short trips if possible. Is the 90 the highest octane available?

I also short trip the Mazda but I purposely drive the long way when I can. Run the car at highway speeds for 30+ minutes each week if possible. The last thing to do is to keep oci short.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: Octane, Ethanol, and Dilution [Re: Isophix] #4729361
04/16/18 08:05 PM
04/16/18 08:05 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,493
out there
spasm3 Offline
spasm3  Offline
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,493
out there
In your manual, you have the option of 3 oil weights. 5w20, 5w30, and 10w30 all in the chart on page 8-9. Since you smell fuel, and its a DI engine, and the manual allows it, i would run a 5w 30 oil. The fuel is already reducing the viscosity of the 5w20 to even less.

You could get a uoa sample drawn after a typical drive, and send it of to confirm fuel ( i'm going to do this on my mazda). A 5w 30 oil will give you a bit more viscosity if you are getting fuel dilution.

Last edited by spasm3; 04/16/18 08:06 PM.

13 elantra 72k 5w30 QSUD
03 chevy avalanche 80k synpwr 5w30
17 mazda cx-5 7300 miles m1 0w30
Re: Octane, Ethanol, and Dilution [Re: Isophix] #4729369
04/16/18 08:12 PM
04/16/18 08:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,126
pa
benjy Offline
benjy  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,126
pa
being in a warmer area the 10W-30 is a better choice, less viscosity improvers and a better noack, prolly a higher HTHS as well that is seldom shown anymore. noack and hths are important and not easily 'pumped' up by additives that do not last.

Re: Octane, Ethanol, and Dilution [Re: Isophix] #4729377
04/16/18 08:20 PM
04/16/18 08:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,090
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,090
Kalifornia Kollective
Unless it is very well known synthetic (Mobil, Motul, etc.) the XW rating mostly tells you what the base oils are. 5W is thinner than 10W in base oils. Then they add VII's to make the op temp (hot) grade numbers.

Fuel dilution thins the base oils badly, so given any choice, always opt for the highest XW grade they will allow. In this case it's 10W-XX.

Don't put expensive oil in there as you'll have to run short oil change intervals. The only effective solution for fuel dilution is change the oil ... Sorry, but it's a fact of some cars life. It used to be bad carburetors, now it DI engines. We're back to 3~5,000 mile oil changes.

Use a good quality oil with chemistry that will reduce intake deposits, but no need for expensive synthetics as you are not going to get their real benefit before the oil has to come out ... frown


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Octane, Ethanol, and Dilution [Re: Isophix] #4729386
04/16/18 08:28 PM
04/16/18 08:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,813
Florida
hatt Offline
hatt  Offline
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,813
Florida
FYI, not that it has anything to do with your situation. The 90 octane E0 may not be the same brand as the station.


2013 F150 5.0, PUP 10W-30, Wix 57502
2010 Camry 2.5, GTX 5W-20, Fram Ultra XG9972
Re: Octane, Ethanol, and Dilution [Re: BrocLuno] #4729389
04/16/18 08:28 PM
04/16/18 08:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,860
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline
wemay  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,860
Kendall, FL
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno


Don't put expensive oil in there as you'll have to run short oil change intervals. The only effective solution for fuel dilution is change the oil ... Sorry, but it's a fact of some cars life. It used to be bad carburetors, now it DI engines. We're back to 3~5,000 mile oil changes.


OCI, OCI, OCI is most important when combating dilution, nothing else.


18 Sportage 2.4L AWD: PP 10W30 + WIX 51334XP + e air WIX 10335
13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: M1EP 10W30 + OEM + e air WIX 49670

Re: Octane, Ethanol, and Dilution [Re: Isophix] #4729463
04/16/18 10:20 PM
04/16/18 10:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,459
[email protected] CZ firearm factory
Marco620 Offline
Marco620  Offline
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,459
[email protected] CZ firearm factory
Just stay with the pure fuel and 5w30 full synthetic oil. Clean throttle body with CRC GDi IVD cleaner. iTs made for DI and has PEA in it every 10k. Use Gumout Regane/Redline Si-1 in conjunction. No Seafoam. No PEA,no good.


15' Civic R18 202,500 mi 0w20 Redline/Archoil9200/TEIN/Eibach/Injen/Tanabe Sustec/Borla Exhaust!
My house to moon is 238,900 miles! Son of a Navy Corpsman. Support vets!


Re: Octane, Ethanol, and Dilution [Re: Isophix] #4729490
04/16/18 11:43 PM
04/16/18 11:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 484
burlington ,ontario, canada
ndfergy Offline
ndfergy  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 484
burlington ,ontario, canada
Go with the octane rating as specified in your owners manual. If it's regular then using a premium will have no benefit. The octane rating is commensurate with your normal combustion chamber temps. Going with a higher octane when not required could lead to more unburned fuel.


2015 Toyota Yaris 5spd Manual
Summer: Mobil Super 1000 10w30
Winter: Mobil Super 1000 5w30
OEM Filter
Re: Octane, Ethanol, and Dilution [Re: wemay] #4729510
04/17/18 01:02 AM
04/17/18 01:02 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 19,312
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 19,312
PNW
Originally Posted By: wemay
OCI, OCI, OCI is most important when combating dilution, nothing else.


What's the typical OCI called out by manufacturers for their DI engines? If fuel dilution is a major concern I'd think the OCI would be less than a typical non-DI vehicle calls out.

Re: Octane, Ethanol, and Dilution [Re: ZeeOSix] #4729520
04/17/18 02:18 AM
04/17/18 02:18 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,860
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline
wemay  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,860
Kendall, FL
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: wemay
OCI, OCI, OCI is most important when combating dilution, nothing else.


What's the typical OCI called out by manufacturers for their DI engines? If fuel dilution is a major concern I'd think the OCI would be less than a typical non-DI vehicle calls out.


My normally aspirated GDi?
Normal: 7500 /12 months
Severe: 3750 /6 months*

The turbo GDi?
Normal: 5000 /6months
Severe: 3000 /same*

*me


18 Sportage 2.4L AWD: PP 10W30 + WIX 51334XP + e air WIX 10335
13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: M1EP 10W30 + OEM + e air WIX 49670

Re: Octane, Ethanol, and Dilution [Re: Isophix] #4729583
04/17/18 05:55 AM
04/17/18 05:55 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,850
The land of USA-made Subies!
SubieRubyRoo Offline
SubieRubyRoo  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,850
The land of USA-made Subies!
So wemay, you could say it is the turbo that changes the OCI recommendation, NOT the fact that they are GDI.

Based on many EcoBoost UOAs, I think the whole fuel dilution thing is WAY overblown on here. I can't remember seeing ANY UOA that was truly concerning solely due to excessive fuel. Maybe now that we're moving to ultra-low sulfur fuels it's nowhere near the issue it once may have been? I know gasoline is not a lubricant... but it also has a much, much lower viscosity and therefore would be "pushed away" by the oil?

I'm not saying try to run 20k OCIs on a GDI, but I think a large portion of the witch hunt is just that, until I see horrible UOAs or failed GDI engines that had reasonable UOAs. JMO

Re: Octane, Ethanol, and Dilution [Re: Isophix] #4729591
04/17/18 06:03 AM
04/17/18 06:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,588
'Stralia
Shannow Online content
Shannow  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,588
'Stralia
Some distillation curves




Premium should have less left in the crankcase both with or without ethanol.

Re: Octane, Ethanol, and Dilution [Re: Isophix] #4729608
04/17/18 06:24 AM
04/17/18 06:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,930
Florida, Cape Coral
Eddie Offline
Eddie  Offline
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,930
Florida, Cape Coral
I agree with SUBYRUBYROO THAT fuel dilution in most cases is overblown because, the wear values are usually low or in-line with non DI engines. A teas-spoon of gasoline in a gallon of oil smells like 50% fuel due to the aromatics in gasoline. I guess BITOGers need something to champion. Ed

Last edited by Eddie; 04/17/18 06:24 AM.

CX5 Touring 2.5L :-)
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