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Running rich banks 1 and 2 #4672242
02/20/18 05:45 PM
02/20/18 05:45 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,283
WI
HoosierJeeper Offline OP
HoosierJeeper  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,283
WI
This is on my Land Rover LR3. Got gas the other day and drove it home, parked it. When I started it, the CEL was on and it was bucking a bit, but normalized pretty quick. I stopped by the guy I use and he very kindly scanned the codes for me and looked at the fuel trim data. It wasn't running rich at that time.

Here are the codes:
P0172 system too rich bank 1
P0175 system too rich bank 2
P0480- 14 fan 1 control circuit (historic code)

He mentioned it could be the MAF sensor. It's a new Denso one I got from amazon for $50 last summer. I bring that up because I'm wondering if it I got a counterfeit one?

Any ideas about the codes? Thanks much!


15 Jeep KL Limited V6: Formula Shell 5W20
07 LR3 SE V8: Maxlife 5W30
05 Jeep KJ Limited: PHM 5W30
96 Jeep XJ Country: STP HM 5W30 (winter)
Re: Running rich banks 1 and 2 [Re: HoosierJeeper] #4672249
02/20/18 05:54 PM
02/20/18 05:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,316
US
JLTD Offline
JLTD  Offline
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,316
US
I agree with your analysis... new inexpensive sensor off of Amazon followed less than 6 months later by an issue that sensor can cause...


I'm a thickie; assimilate
But 20s have their place

Using AMSOIL

Hers: 2008 Jeep Liberty 138k, SS 5w30/Amsoil

His: 2015 4Runner 41k, OE 5w30/Wix

Re: Running rich banks 1 and 2 [Re: HoosierJeeper] #4672259
02/20/18 06:00 PM
02/20/18 06:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,099
Texas
WyrTwister Offline
WyrTwister  Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,099
Texas
So , it throws a code when cold ?

First thing I would do is physically examine the Amazon sensor . Make sure it is making good electrical conection ( un-plug & re-plug it ) . Look for physical damage .

Best of luck to you ! :-)


Wyr
God bless
Re: Running rich banks 1 and 2 [Re: HoosierJeeper] #4672260
02/20/18 06:00 PM
02/20/18 06:00 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,572
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,572
MA, Mittelfranken.de
It could be the MAF but repair the P480 first as it is a known issue. The P480 can be a few things inc the VSS sensor, this can effect other components. Unplugging the MAF will send the ECM to default parameters, monitor the fuel trim to see how it reacts in closed loop.
How does it run cold?


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Running rich banks 1 and 2 [Re: HoosierJeeper] #4672266
02/20/18 06:02 PM
02/20/18 06:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,283
WI
HoosierJeeper Offline OP
HoosierJeeper  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,283
WI
It's fine when cold. It had been parked for maybe an hour...so it was still warm I'd say. It's had a trend of sometimes doing this after getting gas.

So start with the 480? I was just doing more research on that. The fan is mechanical with an electronically controlled clutch. Is it possible that could be a code left over from when it was like -15F? The fan roared pretty good for a bit until it warmed up. Thought it was normal.

Last edited by HoosierJeeper; 02/20/18 06:05 PM.

15 Jeep KL Limited V6: Formula Shell 5W20
07 LR3 SE V8: Maxlife 5W30
05 Jeep KJ Limited: PHM 5W30
96 Jeep XJ Country: STP HM 5W30 (winter)
Re: Running rich banks 1 and 2 [Re: HoosierJeeper] #4672276
02/20/18 06:06 PM
02/20/18 06:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,240
Lyndhurst NJ
Audios Offline
Audios  Offline
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,240
Lyndhurst NJ
I just had similar faults on a Volvo, which may actually be similar to the LR. Clean the throttle body really well, and clear all faults and adaptations. Leave the key forward for about 2-3 minutes after and the car should do a learn on its own.


2002 VW Golf TDI-Mobil 1 5/40 TDT
2007 Mercedes GL320 CDI Fuchs 5/40 GT Pro XTL
2005 BMW M3 BMW Twin Power 10/60
2003 BMW M5-Fuchs 5/40
1998 BMW M3/4/5 Fuchs 5/40
Re: Running rich banks 1 and 2 [Re: HoosierJeeper] #4672286
02/20/18 06:10 PM
02/20/18 06:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,283
WI
HoosierJeeper Offline OP
HoosierJeeper  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,283
WI
I was just googling that and it seems like the TB is common culprit. I cleaned a year or two ago but it might be due again.


15 Jeep KL Limited V6: Formula Shell 5W20
07 LR3 SE V8: Maxlife 5W30
05 Jeep KJ Limited: PHM 5W30
96 Jeep XJ Country: STP HM 5W30 (winter)
Re: Running rich banks 1 and 2 [Re: HoosierJeeper] #4672290
02/20/18 06:15 PM
02/20/18 06:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,572
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,572
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: HoosierJeeper
It's fine when cold. It had been parked for maybe an hour...so it was still warm I'd say. It's had a trend of sometimes doing this after getting gas.

So start with the 480? I was just doing more research on that. The fan is mechanical with an electronically controlled clutch. Is it possible that could be a code left over from when it was like -15F? The fan roared pretty good for a bit until it warmed up. Thought it was normal.


Cold like that can cause all sorts of little electrical gremlins to pop up, clear the codes and get a fresh start on this.
How long and how many tanks of gas has this been going on?


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Running rich banks 1 and 2 [Re: HoosierJeeper] #4672298
02/20/18 06:20 PM
02/20/18 06:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,240
Lyndhurst NJ
Audios Offline
Audios  Offline
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,240
Lyndhurst NJ
You may be able to just leave the key forward and let it adapt to the dirty throttle, but it may not be 100%
Also I had another one come back a few hundred miles later with mass maf correlation, mass air flow fixed it for 6 months now, so may have 2 issues, but Id imagine the throttle is a better place to start.

Last edited by Audios; 02/20/18 06:21 PM.

2002 VW Golf TDI-Mobil 1 5/40 TDT
2007 Mercedes GL320 CDI Fuchs 5/40 GT Pro XTL
2005 BMW M3 BMW Twin Power 10/60
2003 BMW M5-Fuchs 5/40
1998 BMW M3/4/5 Fuchs 5/40
Re: Running rich banks 1 and 2 [Re: HoosierJeeper] #4672302
02/20/18 06:24 PM
02/20/18 06:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,283
WI
HoosierJeeper Offline OP
HoosierJeeper  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,283
WI
It happens maybe 5-10 times a year, for the past 3 or 4 years. The first time it happened I want to say the codes were similar (it actually had lean ones too) and I was in the middle of nowhere, so a reman Autozone MAF had to do. Worked fine for a year, then same thing. Got another Autozone MAF and it worked fine. Then last summer it was acting up again so I got the Denso thinking that'd fix it. There seems to be loose correlation between getting gas and it bucking, but 95% of fillups it's fine and not every bucking episode is after getting gas.

Last edited by HoosierJeeper; 02/20/18 06:26 PM.

15 Jeep KL Limited V6: Formula Shell 5W20
07 LR3 SE V8: Maxlife 5W30
05 Jeep KJ Limited: PHM 5W30
96 Jeep XJ Country: STP HM 5W30 (winter)
Re: Running rich banks 1 and 2 [Re: HoosierJeeper] #4672348
02/20/18 07:17 PM
02/20/18 07:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,572
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,572
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Just thinking out loud to myself. I wonder if it might have a saturated carbon canister when you fill it. Once the purge valve opens in closed loop it would get a large amount of fuel for a short time.
I don't think there is any code for the can itself if saturated.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Running rich banks 1 and 2 [Re: HoosierJeeper] #4672386
02/20/18 07:53 PM
02/20/18 07:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,283
WI
HoosierJeeper Offline OP
HoosierJeeper  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,283
WI
About a year ago it got codes for the purge valve sticking open and something about the carbon canister but I can't recall the specifics. Replaced the purge valve assembly then. The other code it gets sometimes is one for the leak detection pump not working. One other interesting thing that happened a few months ago is after getting gas, I drove it home (drove fine and normally), and gas was pouring out of some hose under it. It stopped and hasn't done it since, chalked it up to an overzealous pump.


15 Jeep KL Limited V6: Formula Shell 5W20
07 LR3 SE V8: Maxlife 5W30
05 Jeep KJ Limited: PHM 5W30
96 Jeep XJ Country: STP HM 5W30 (winter)
Re: Running rich banks 1 and 2 [Re: HoosierJeeper] #4672443
02/20/18 08:32 PM
02/20/18 08:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,572
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,572
MA, Mittelfranken.de
IMO this seems like right track. Time to do some diagnosing on that system. Do you top off the tank after the pump automatically shuts off? If so stop.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Running rich banks 1 and 2 [Re: HoosierJeeper] #4672454
02/20/18 08:43 PM
02/20/18 08:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,557
Toronto
PeterPolyol Offline
PeterPolyol  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,557
Toronto
Could be the MAF indeed. Once had a bad drivability problem on a supercharged Jaguar with a Denso MAF for a while until it finally set a code for banks lean (opposite of your prob). Eventually decided to go over the MAF with great detail and found a speck of contamination on the tiny hot wire which required a q-tip to gently remove. Problem solved. At least check it with a bright light for debris or contamination on the sensor


Scambling for solutions is a hopelessly futile endeavour and potentially dangerous, without first coming to a solid, personal understanding of the problem. Beware riding the ideological hobby horse.
Re: Running rich banks 1 and 2 [Re: HoosierJeeper] #4672458
02/20/18 08:45 PM
02/20/18 08:45 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,283
WI
HoosierJeeper Offline OP
HoosierJeeper  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,283
WI
Nope, I just let the pump stop itself.

Would this be the right part?
http://www.roverparts.com/Parts/WTR500030

It looks like the leak detection pump is combined with the charcoal canister. Although Rockauto lists them separately.


15 Jeep KL Limited V6: Formula Shell 5W20
07 LR3 SE V8: Maxlife 5W30
05 Jeep KJ Limited: PHM 5W30
96 Jeep XJ Country: STP HM 5W30 (winter)
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