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another example of societal norms ignored #4669174
02/17/18 10:28 PM
02/17/18 10:28 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,629
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline OP
dnewton3  Offline OP
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,629
Indianapolis, IN
http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2018/02/15...iral-video.html
If this were an adult, would the aircrew not have refused takeoff until the adult deplaned? Or, if the tantrum didn't start until after take-off, and this were an adult, would not that plane would have either turned around to it's origin, or put down in mid-flight plan, and the person to be arrested?


Irony - see this video where an adult female throws her own tantrum, and is removed from the plane.
http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2018/02/16...rnment-job.html
The irony is two-fold. First, she was removed prior to flight, when the kid in the first example was not. Second, in that she was upset because an infant was crying, and she didn't want to have to listen to it. You can even hear the mom apologize and say the kid won't cry all the time ... as if crying for half the flight is acceptable?


I don't care if it's an adult, a child, a special-needs person, an emotional support peacock, or whatever ... you don't have a "right" to inflict society with your issues. If you cannot conform to the expected norm of the situation, then you don't belong there. Have the decency to recognize that your burden should not become everyone's burden.


NOTE: I am delineating the behaviors here, not "disabilities". If you need me to further explain, I will. But I'd like to think that you understand the distinction I make.


The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: another example of societal norms ignored [Re: dnewton3] #4669181
02/17/18 10:32 PM
02/17/18 10:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 11,095
Phoenix, AZ
Nick1994 Online content
Nick1994  Online Content
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 11,095
Phoenix, AZ
I saw that the other day. It really was like she was performing an exorcism.


2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L 88k Motorcraft Synthetic Blend 5w30 & OEM
2000 Toyota Camry 2.2L 231k Valvoline 5w30 & Fram Ultra
1996 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L 147k Mobil 1 HM 10w40 & Fram Ultra
Re: another example of societal norms ignored [Re: dnewton3] #4669187
02/17/18 10:36 PM
02/17/18 10:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,255
CA
CharlieBauer Offline
CharlieBauer  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,255
CA
This is why we don't travel in economy for long haul and why my entire family has noise cancelling headphones.


It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that ain't so.

- mistakenly attributed to Mark Twain
Re: another example of societal norms ignored [Re: dnewton3] #4669191
02/17/18 10:40 PM
02/17/18 10:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,990
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,990
NY
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I don't care if it's an adult, a child, a special-needs person, an emotional support peacock, or whatever ... you don't have a "right" to inflict society with your issues. If you cannot conform to the expected norm of the situation, then you don't belong there. Have the decency to recognize that your burden should not become everyone's burden.


NOTE: I am delineating the behaviors here, not "disabilities". If you need me to further explain, I will. But I'd like to think that you understand the distinction I make.

I agree 100%.

Re: another example of societal norms ignored [Re: dnewton3] #4669199
02/17/18 10:45 PM
02/17/18 10:45 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,681
Fort Lauderdale, FL
DoubleWasp Online content
DoubleWasp  Online Content
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,681
Fort Lauderdale, FL
3 year olds get away with a lot of things that grown adults do not.

There is the possibility that it was the child's first flight and that it could not adequately deal with the pressure changes.

The adult woman's mistake was threatening the job of the flight attendant. We can accuse the child of a great many things, but we cannot accuse it of being a total and complete jerk like that woman was. Talk about choosing exactly the wrong words to say.

Last edited by wwillson; 02/18/18 08:55 AM. Reason: censor bypass
Re: another example of societal norms ignored [Re: dnewton3] #4669200
02/17/18 10:46 PM
02/17/18 10:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,829
Columbus, Ohio
John_K Offline
John_K  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,829
Columbus, Ohio
Where's that Ridalin dispenser when you need it?

I blame the mother, this kid obviously does this on a regular basis.


2009 Mercury Grand Marquis, 8 cyl auto, 83xxx miles, PU/Fram Ultra
2005 Hyundai Sonata, 4 cyl auto, 96xxx miles, Maxlife/OEM Filter
Current oil stash: 519 qts.


Re: another example of societal norms ignored [Re: dnewton3] #4669204
02/17/18 10:52 PM
02/17/18 10:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 6,531
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 6,531
...
We travel economy often on transpacific flights and noise cancelling headphones are a necessity. Small children cannot help crying if their ears are not clearing. This is not a issue on new aircraft like the Boeing Dreamliner though. The issue lies with parent/s who decide to take their small children and cannot handle them. Imagine having a brat kid kicking your seat back for 12-14 hours. I went through this and finally got up and stared at the kid which got him to stop for a while at least. This also applies to grown men and women who seemed to have stopped maturing around age 14 and still act like brats.

Respect for others, manners, consideration, a lot of human values are not being taught.

However I make it a point to thank anyone and commend them if their child has acted well on these long flights.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: another example of societal norms ignored [Re: dnewton3] #4669212
02/17/18 11:05 PM
02/17/18 11:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,132
Dallas,Tx USA
aquariuscsm Online content
aquariuscsm  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,132
Dallas,Tx USA
I have one word for that rugrat,DISCIPLINE!


1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10W30
2012 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L 2.4,auto,San Marino Red
Pennzoil Platinum 5W20

Re: another example of societal norms ignored [Re: dnewton3] #4669213
02/17/18 11:06 PM
02/17/18 11:06 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 953
Rio Rancho, NM
Pajero Offline
Pajero  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 953
Rio Rancho, NM
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2018/02/15...iral-video.html
If this were an adult, would the aircrew not have refused takeoff until the adult deplaned? Or, if the tantrum didn't start until after take-off, and this were an adult, would not that plane would have either turned around to it's origin, or put down in mid-flight plan, and the person to be arrested?


Irony - see this video where an adult female throws her own tantrum, and is removed from the plane.
http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2018/02/16...rnment-job.html
The irony is two-fold. First, she was removed prior to flight, when the kid in the first example was not. Second, in that she was upset because an infant was crying, and she didn't want to have to listen to it. You can even hear the mom apologize and say the kid won't cry all the time ... as if crying for half the flight is acceptable?


I don't care if it's an adult, a child, a special-needs person, an emotional support peacock, or whatever ... you don't have a "right" to inflict society with your issues. If you cannot conform to the expected norm of the situation, then you don't belong there. Have the decency to recognize that your burden should not become everyone's burden.


NOTE: I am delineating the behaviors here, not "disabilities". If you need me to further explain, I will. But I'd like to think that you understand the distinction I make.



I echo your sentiment!


Respectfully,

Pajero!


Always remember "Planned obsolescence."

1994 Montero SR 3.5 DOHC, 133,xxx
Fram Ultra/ Snorkel with Pre-filter
K-9-Co-pilot
Re: another example of societal norms ignored [Re: DoubleWasp] #4669219
02/17/18 11:25 PM
02/17/18 11:25 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,629
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline OP
dnewton3  Offline OP
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,629
Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
3 year olds get away with a lot of things that grown adults do not.

There is the possibility that it was the child's first flight and that it could not adequately deal with the pressure changes.



Somewhat true; kids do get away with stuff. And if this were in a Chuckee-Cheese eatery, I'd not even bring it up. But this is a close-quarter flight that lasted EIGHT hours! The point is that kids should NOT be excused for acting in an inappropriate manner. And if they cannot behave adequately, they should be removed from the situation. In the absence of good parenting, the flight crew should have dealt with this before take off. And this DID START prior to take off. Which means this wasn't a "pressure" adjustment issue at all. Whatever the cause, it's not acceptable. I don't care if it's his first flight or 20th. Is he "normal" or special needs? Doesn't matter. The BEHAVIOR is unacceptable for the situation. What the mom tolerates in her own home is her business. But once she takes that kid into the alumi-tube, it becomes everyone's problem.


This was an 8 hour flight, not some puddle hop that lasts 45 minutes. His tantrum lasted on/off for HOURS.
Perhaps the kid didn't know any better, but the mom should and the flight crew did.
The mom should have offered to deplane prior to the flight; the red flags were already there for everyone to see.
The flight crew should have demanded they deplane.


I've said it before and I'll say it again; know your audience and know your surroundings. If you or someone in your charge cannot work within the societal norm of the situation, then it's YOUR responsibility to adapt by leaving, not other's obligation to endure.


The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: another example of societal norms ignored [Re: dnewton3] #4669242
02/18/18 12:42 AM
02/18/18 12:42 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,298
Michigan
daves87rs Offline
daves87rs  Offline
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,298
Michigan
Still crazy...not sure why someone would take a young child on a flight that long not prepared at least..


Coming together is a beginning; keeping together is progress; working together is success.

Henry Ford
Re: another example of societal norms ignored [Re: dnewton3] #4669249
02/18/18 01:36 AM
02/18/18 01:36 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,681
Fort Lauderdale, FL
DoubleWasp Online content
DoubleWasp  Online Content
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,681
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
3 year olds get away with a lot of things that grown adults do not.

There is the possibility that it was the child's first flight and that it could not adequately deal with the pressure changes.



Somewhat true; kids do get away with stuff. And if this were in a Chuckee-Cheese eatery, I'd not even bring it up. But this is a close-quarter flight that lasted EIGHT hours! The point is that kids should NOT be excused for acting in an inappropriate manner. And if they cannot behave adequately, they should be removed from the situation. In the absence of good parenting, the flight crew should have dealt with this before take off. And this DID START prior to take off. Which means this wasn't a "pressure" adjustment issue at all. Whatever the cause, it's not acceptable. I don't care if it's his first flight or 20th. Is he "normal" or special needs? Doesn't matter. The BEHAVIOR is unacceptable for the situation. What the mom tolerates in her own home is her business. But once she takes that kid into the alumi-tube, it becomes everyone's problem.


This was an 8 hour flight, not some puddle hop that lasts 45 minutes. His tantrum lasted on/off for HOURS.
Perhaps the kid didn't know any better, but the mom should and the flight crew did.
The mom should have offered to deplane prior to the flight; the red flags were already there for everyone to see.
The flight crew should have demanded they deplane.


I've said it before and I'll say it again; know your audience and know your surroundings. If you or someone in your charge cannot work within the societal norm of the situation, then it's YOUR responsibility to adapt by leaving, not other's obligation to endure.


Before the flight?

1. Eject parents for failure to control the child.
2. Diplomatically eject the child as being too young to be an unaccompanied minor (since the parents were tossed).

That truly is 100% unacceptable. Shame on them for allowing this to go on.

A 3-year old can't help but be a 3-year old, but the parents duty was to control the child, or remove themselves from the plane.


07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
68 Charger R/T / Supercharged 440 VR1/DBL7349
07 Ram 3500 4x4 / Cummins 6.7 /DBL7349
17 Maserati GranTurismo Cabrio
Re: another example of societal norms ignored [Re: dnewton3] #4669290
02/18/18 05:59 AM
02/18/18 05:59 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,370
Nowhere NM
Smoky14 Offline
Smoky14  Offline
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,370
Nowhere NM
"Social Norms" no longer seem to count, today it is make your own norms and let others suffer. In the past I enjoyed air travel, since 911 I have flown once...never again.
Smoky


99 Acura 2.3CL 5speed MT
12 Ford Fusion 2.5S 6speed MT
05 Suzuki Bandit 1200.
Re: another example of societal norms ignored [Re: dnewton3] #4669306
02/18/18 06:40 AM
02/18/18 06:40 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 994
PENNSYLVANIA
JeepWJ19 Offline
JeepWJ19  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 994
PENNSYLVANIA
Little kid + crying = the two most annoying things.

Makes me want to gouge my eyes out with rusty spoons.


2002 Jeep WJ 4.0 | Mobil 1 HM 5w30 |
TG8A | 2.5" lift | 148k miles

Software Engineer :]
Re: another example of societal norms ignored [Re: dnewton3] #4669324
02/18/18 07:25 AM
02/18/18 07:25 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 21,937
Orlando, FL
Mr Nice Offline
Mr Nice  Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 21,937
Orlando, FL
Just spank that brat, problem solved.

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