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Muscle Memory and Shooting Multiple Guns #4669143
02/17/18 10:26 PM
02/17/18 10:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,158
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline OP
JHZR2  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,158
New Jersey
I do range trips with others, so we swap different guns. The exposure is fun and sometimes eye opening.

Today I swapped rapidly (like 2 mags on one then the same on the other right after) between a DAO S&W 5946, an M&P Shield, and a 617 revolver. I used a five-section target, so each gun gets its own target area, and typically shoot at 15 yards. I found that I could shoot the two 9mm guns pretty much identical accuracy. The spread, number of holes one on top of another, etc. are more or less the same.

But I noticed that my trigger control was really sloppy on the M&P, seemingly because I was shooting the others which have long/hard trigger pulls. I even caught myself doing an unintended double tap on the striker fired gun.

The only striker fired gun I have is a G19. So shooting the shield, which has a great in hand feel and is fun to shoot (comments of a gritty trigger ended up being less of a thing than I had thought from prior unloaded handling) was sort of a new/different experience to me. But I feel that it's been different than my Glock.

So, is there a good way to work on this? Not sure it truly matters, like mentioned, both were shot with similar accuracy. But I didn't like feeling "out of control" for lack of better terms, on the striker gun.

Thoughts/suggestions?


Re: Muscle Memory and Shooting Multiple Guns [Re: JHZR2] #4669155
02/17/18 10:49 PM
02/17/18 10:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,051
Idaho
CT8 Online content
CT8  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,051
Idaho
For me it takes a bit of shooting between different hand guns to get "dialed in" I can shoot a 1911 and Ruger 22/45 than my XD Tacticals My Ruger p95 the worst. If I could turn the clock back to day 1 I would buy only one type of platform.


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: Muscle Memory and Shooting Multiple Guns [Re: CT8] #4669164
02/17/18 11:00 PM
02/17/18 11:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 967
Iowa
Nyquist Offline
Nyquist  Offline
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 967
Iowa
Having enough laser cartridges for rapid succession dry firing would help.


2015 Chevy Traverse 3.6L (LLT) Mobil 1 5w30 w/ Fram Ultra
2017 Chevy Cruze Hatchback 1.4L (LE2) Mobil 1 5w30 w/ Wix
Re: Muscle Memory and Shooting Multiple Guns [Re: CT8] #4669189
02/17/18 11:38 PM
02/17/18 11:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,814
SD
zrxkawboy Offline
zrxkawboy  Offline
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,814
SD
Originally Posted By: CT8
For me it takes a bit of shooting between different hand guns to get "dialed in"


I agree.


"Think of all the Ford owners who will someday want an automobile." John Dodge

Re: Muscle Memory and Shooting Multiple Guns [Re: JHZR2] #4669224
02/18/18 12:31 AM
02/18/18 12:31 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,053
Lakeside, CA
Blkstanger Offline
Blkstanger  Offline
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,053
Lakeside, CA
After a short while I fell in love with the trigger on my Shield 9. I guess it's all in what you are used to.


99 Jeep WJ 4.7 190,000 Maxlife 10w30, Fram Ultra.
Re: Muscle Memory and Shooting Multiple Guns [Re: JHZR2] #4669259
02/18/18 04:35 AM
02/18/18 04:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,147
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Offline
billt460  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,147
Glendale, Arizona
I shoot so many different guns, it takes at most 2 or 3 magazines and I'm used to it. I think it's good to shoot different weapons all the time. It keeps you more adaptable. I've never been trigger sensitive.

Re: Muscle Memory and Shooting Multiple Guns [Re: JHZR2] #4669301
02/18/18 07:31 AM
02/18/18 07:31 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 693
Ont Canada
Koz1 Offline
Koz1  Offline
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 693
Ont Canada
Muscle Memory is not needed to shoot accurately. Unless you get in shoot outs often where a second will save your life.
I have been taught that it is a dangerous way to train, not aiming just shooting.


Currently using, Fuchs TITAN GT1 PRO FLEX 5W-30, M1 5W-20 and Castrol Edge 0W-20 Gold B.
Re: Muscle Memory and Shooting Multiple Guns [Re: Koz1] #4669332
02/18/18 08:37 AM
02/18/18 08:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,398
1/2 hr N.E. of Detroit
Triple_Se7en Offline
Triple_Se7en  Offline
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,398
1/2 hr N.E. of Detroit
Originally Posted By: Koz1
Muscle Memory is not needed to shoot accurately. Unless you get in shoot outs often where a second will save your life.
I have been taught that it is a dangerous way to train, not aiming just shooting.


All of us (non cops) better have a real good reason to be in a 45 foot shootout (opening post regarding 15 yards). Opposing lawyers will sue the daylights out of us, if we don't. Heck, even our local police may prosecute us for shooting at someone in those distances.

Last edited by Triple_Se7en; 02/18/18 08:43 AM.

She's the only sister-in-law I have. But she's not my favorite.
Re: Muscle Memory and Shooting Multiple Guns [Re: Koz1] #4669336
02/18/18 08:42 AM
02/18/18 08:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,746
Champlain/Hudson Valley
Kira Offline
Kira  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,746
Champlain/Hudson Valley
Similar situation:

A guy who makes lotsa firearm videos shot himself in the leg while drawing a cocked 'n locked automatic.
He had been testing different guns and holsters that day.

All that unfamiliar finger fumbling (safety buttons, holster straps and releases) is what made him klutz his trigger finger into the wrong place at the wrong time.
I must add his preference for holstering his sidearm high on his belt and slightly to his back side required that he reach back and up rather extremely.
He's a fat guy with little to no flexibility. Lifting his arm up and sticking his elbow out ridiculously so he could get his hand high AND rearward enough contributed to the mishap.

Just too many toys that day. At least he admitted it straightforwardly in a subsequent video.

The slug merrily danced down the full length of his femur bone and exited by his knee.

SHOT happens! (pretty clever, eh?)

Re: Muscle Memory and Shooting Multiple Guns [Re: JHZR2] #4669346
02/18/18 08:53 AM
02/18/18 08:53 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,147
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Offline
billt460  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,147
Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Koz1
Muscle Memory is not needed to shoot accurately. I have been taught that it is a dangerous way to train, not aiming just shooting.


The best 5 minute shooting video you'll ever watch.


Re: Muscle Memory and Shooting Multiple Guns [Re: Triple_Se7en] #4669367
02/18/18 09:11 AM
02/18/18 09:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,158
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline OP
JHZR2  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,158
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Koz1
Muscle Memory is not needed to shoot accurately. Unless you get in shoot outs often where a second will save your life.
I have been taught that it is a dangerous way to train, not aiming just shooting.


Muscle memory might not be the best term. It's getting "dialed in" to various trigger feel, pull, and mass, and being able to swap in-between.


Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en

All of us (non cops) better have a real good reason to be in a 45 foot shootout (opening post regarding 15 yards). Opposing lawyers will sue the daylights out of us, if we don't. Heck, even our local police may prosecute us for shooting at someone in those distances.


This isn't the slightest bit pertinent to the discussion. I could set my targets at 200yds for all it matters, and it would be none of anyones' business, and just my choice. Nothing intrinsically wrong with shooting at a bit longer distance. As I understand it, NRA conventional pistol competition goes up to 50yd outdoors, so me arbitrarily shooting at 15 is just fine.

Re: Muscle Memory and Shooting Multiple Guns [Re: Kira] #4669371
02/18/18 09:13 AM
02/18/18 09:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,594
SE Texas
2015_PSD Offline
2015_PSD  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,594
SE Texas
Originally Posted By: Kira
Similar situation:

A guy who makes lotsa firearm videos shot himself in the leg while drawing a cocked 'n locked automatic.
He had been testing different guns and holsters that day.

All that unfamiliar finger fumbling (safety buttons, holster straps and releases) is what made him klutz his trigger finger into the wrong place at the wrong time.
I must add his preference for holstering his sidearm high on his belt and slightly to his back side required that he reach back and up rather extremely.
He's a fat guy with little to no flexibility. Lifting his arm up and sticking his elbow out ridiculously so he could get his hand high AND rearward enough contributed to the mishap.

Just too many toys that day. At least he admitted it straightforwardly in a subsequent video.

The slug merrily danced down the full length of his femur bone and exited by his knee.

SHOT happens! (pretty clever, eh?)
The brand of holster (Serpa) contributed to that negligent discharge as much as anything else. The fact that you have to release the pistol with a button that naturally curves your finger into the trigger guard is a poor design to say the very least. While I am not defending his actions, there are other videos which describe the natural tendency of this holster to lend itself towards negligent discharges.


2018 MB AMG GLC43 3.0L Coupe - Castrol 0W-40/Purflux
2018 MB C300 2.0L - M1 0W-40/OEM
2015 F-250 6.7L PS Diesel - Delo 15W-40/CQ Blue
2014 Explorer 3.5L Limited - M1 AFE 0W-20/FU
Re: Muscle Memory and Shooting Multiple Guns [Re: Blkstanger] #4669374
02/18/18 09:14 AM
02/18/18 09:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,158
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline OP
JHZR2  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,158
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Blkstanger
After a short while I fell in love with the trigger on my Shield 9. I guess it's all in what you are used to.


I had just read a lot about it being "gritty". I understand why from looking at how the hinge works. It is really short and light to me. It was fine as far as I was concerned... point was just that going from something really long and heavy (DAO) to something so short and light can be a bigger switch than I had anticipated...

Re: Muscle Memory and Shooting Multiple Guns [Re: Nyquist] #4669380
02/18/18 09:18 AM
02/18/18 09:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,158
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline OP
JHZR2  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,158
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Nyquist
Having enough laser cartridges for rapid succession dry firing would help.


So that's what first came to mind - snap caps or lasers. But in a semiauto, the action doesn't cycle, so then you bring it down, rack the slide, and return to firing position. Different than doing it for real.

Perhaps worth a shot but it's also good to see from others that this is a normal situation to calibrate one's body...

Re: Muscle Memory and Shooting Multiple Guns [Re: CT8] #4669463
02/18/18 10:15 AM
02/18/18 10:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,481
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,481
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: CT8
For me it takes a bit of shooting between different hand guns to get "dialed in" I can shoot a 1911 and Ruger 22/45 than my XD Tacticals My Ruger p95 the worst. If I could turn the clock back to day 1 I would buy only one type of platform.


I echo this....

I like to shoot different pistols, but the one I train with the most and A L W A Y S shoot last at the end of every session is my "every day carry"

The one you rely on the most is the one your brain must be most used to.

ANY LEO or agent will tell you the same thing: How you react - is how you were trained.
So much so, that I automatically "swipe the safety down" on the left side of the slide with my thumb... even if there isn't one there.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
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