Dusted - K&N on a Cummins ISX

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Originally Posted By: oliveoil
The OP should have oiled it properly, letting it dry, before installing. The result would have been better.


You may want to actually read the thread.
 
Originally Posted By: oliveoil
The OP should have oiled it properly, letting it dry, before installing. The result would have been better.


So ... what, exactly, is the "proper" oiling procedure for an "OIL FREE" filter?

KampN_TruckFilter_13MAY17_zpsy7vnryhn.jpg


Inquiring minds need to know.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
On the other hand, if you are operating an engine gulping obscene quantities of air (like this Cummins ISX) [snip] When that turbo is at full spool, the amount of air this engine is pulling in is massive, so you also have to think that the draw on the media in a scenario such as this is significantly higher than buddy with a K&N cone on his naturally aspirated 1.6L Honda 4-pot.


Besides the diesel being bigger, the diesel (turbo or not) draws enough air for full output all the time, vs the gas engine throttled down to perhaps 20% for typical cruising.
So that implies K&N is roughly 5X riskier to use on a diesel engine than gas?
 
Diesels suck in a ridiculous amount of air. Turbo diesels suck in an even more ridiculous amount.

The air inlet on a 5.9 Cummins will take your hand and not give it back at idle. Ask me how I know.
 
If you're not supposed to oil a K&N HD filter, then how does it catch dirt from entering the engine? Special polymer mix which is only as good as the substrate?
 
Originally Posted By: nthach
If you're not supposed to oil a K&N HD filter, then how does it catch dirt from entering the engine? Special polymer mix which is only as good as the substrate?


I think the answer is that it obviously doesn't
wink.gif
LOL!
 
The reason Cotton gauze filter manufacturers have few repeat customers is not because the filters last and last with only cleanings and re-installations, It is because the first time someone takes one out to clean it they see how much dirt got through it and into the intake, and the throw the filter out and never buy another!
 
Originally Posted By: another Todd
The reason Cotton gauze filter manufacturers have few repeat customers is not because the filters last and last with only cleanings and re-installations, It is because the first time someone takes one out to clean it they see how much dirt got through it and into the intake, and the throw the filter out and never buy another!

I have never personally seen this, even on engines that move more air than this diesel.

There is more to the original post here than just having a K&N installed, regardless of what is said.
 
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Originally Posted By: another Todd
The reason Cotton gauze filter manufacturers have few repeat customers is not because the filters last and last with only cleanings and re-installations, It is because the first time someone takes one out to clean it they see how much dirt got through it and into the intake, and the throw the filter out and never buy another!

I have never personally seen this, even on engines that move more air than this diesel.

There is more to the original post here than just having a K&N installed, regardless of what is said.


I'm curious what you think has been omitted from the story here? Do you have a vested interest in K&N that has fostered such a dismissive attitude or what is it?

I'm also curious what OTR truck engine you've personally run with a K&N in an environment that mirrors that of Ontario and is larger than a Cummins ISX?

I can assure you I'm left no detail that was conveyed to me out of this thread. If you choose to no believe that, I don't think any further exchange is going to be fruitful.
 
Originally Posted By: Silk
Apart from the incorrect installation - oilling a dry filter. Dumb, dumb, dumb.


That was the owner of the truck who apparently didn't follow the instructions
21.gif
But I don't believe that to be a significant component of why the filter was obviously not filtering.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Silk
Apart from the incorrect installation - oilling a dry filter. Dumb, dumb, dumb.


That was the owner of the truck who apparently didn't follow the instructions
21.gif
But I don't believe that to be a significant component of why the filter was obviously not filtering.
I agree. The filter is just not up to the job of properly filtering a massive amount of air that is consumed by an engine the size of the ISX engine. My boss at work buys Donaldson filters for the Cat C-15 and ISX engines that are in the trucks. Anytime the air to air hoses have been off on either engines, they are as clean as new.
 
This whole thread is an example of stupidity. A K&N is supplied, and someone thinks, ''Oh, it's a K&N, you have to oil them.'' Even though it states clearly on the box that it is oil free. Would you oil a paper filter? No, and you shouldn't oil a filter that says oil free. Totally negates any argument on the efficiency of the filter. The oil would've made it more restrictive and it sucked dirt past to end seals. This is in no way a definitive test of K&N, but is a good example of the stupidity of installers. Do it right next time.
 
My reservation with this thread is that I have seen oiled cotton gauze filters in front of turbine engines - IN THE DESERT - with perfectly clean intakes, compressors, and turbines. On the Rolls-Royce M250-C30 the filters eliminated our need for regular turbine washes - indeed we didn't perform one in the 18 months I was there. Another added benefit was more available power over a traditional particle separator.

I have also used K&N in my younger days, and have never personally seen a wet or dirty intake tract.

I believe that if this filter was installed competently, there would be no thread.

My opinion, of course, and I meant no disrespect.
 
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
My reservation with this thread is that I have seen oiled cotton gauze filters in front of turbine engines - IN THE DESERT - with perfectly clean intakes, compressors, and turbines. On the Rolls-Royce M250-C30 the filters eliminated our need for regular turbine washes - indeed we didn't perform one in the 18 months I was there. Another added benefit was more available power over a traditional particle separator.

I have also used K&N in my younger days, and have never personally seen a wet or dirty intake tract.

I believe that if this filter was installed competently, there would be no thread.

My opinion, of course, and I meant no disrespect.


I used K&N's when I was younger as well, but they were on N/A gas apps, so air ingestion wasn't anywhere close to approaching what's going on with an ISX.

Curious about the RR's, were those K&N filters comparable to what we are seeing here or something from another manufacturer that might be of better quality and finer filtration?

I have no reason to assume the filter was improperly installed in the housing (despite Silk's reservations) and indeed the limited view of the sealing ends seems to support that: there is no real dust on the end we can see. Perhaps the oiling of the filter that shouldn't be oiled created some issue we haven't accounted for, but it did end up costing the bloke who owned it a rebuild. Expensive lesson.
 
Originally Posted By: Silk
This whole thread is an example of stupidity. A K&N is supplied, and someone thinks, ''Oh, it's a K&N, you have to oil them.'' Even though it states clearly on the box that it is oil free. Would you oil a paper filter? No, and you shouldn't oil a filter that says oil free. Totally negates any argument on the efficiency of the filter. The oil would've made it more restrictive and it sucked dirt past to end seals. This is in no way a definitive test of K&N, but is a good example of the stupidity of installers. Do it right next time.


Again, the filter was installed by the guy that owned the truck, he's not in this thread, never has been. That's been stated several times now.
 
The STC filter system was made by Donaldson, but like a K&N you could see daylight through them when they weren't oiled.

The glue and wire backing were of a higher caliber than what I've seen on a K&N, but the media itself was similar/identical.

We used both K&N Aerosol oil for field use, or Donaldson oil in hand bottles.

If the K&N filter installed on the ISX was a dry type similar to an aFe or AEM, it is possible that the oil degraded the media to the point where it was damaged and carnage ensured.
 
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