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Incompetence, Mendacity in the Rebuilding Industry #4659005
02/07/18 01:15 PM
02/07/18 01:15 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,202
Toronto, Canada
George7941 Offline OP
George7941  Offline OP
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,202
Toronto, Canada
I needed to replace the power steering pump in a Freightliner truck and a new one from Freightliner is $1300. Because of the cost I looked into rebuilt ones.

First shop rebuilt my old one for $400. I installed it and found it did not work. Took it off and took it back to the same shop. Got it back and it still did not work. This pump is not easy to get at, gear driven by the timing gear train, at the back of the timing gear case and tucked in between the engine and frame rail. I had to remove a few components just to get at the pump. The shop was an hours drive away, each way, for me.

Called another shop, they could supply a Bosch rebuilt unit, fully tested, for $800. Ok, I paid for it and the unit was delivered bare, not in a box, let alone a Bosch box. There is nothing on the pump indicating it was rebuilt by Bosch. Called the shop this morning and the owner said "but they said it was a Bosch rebuilt unit". From his reaction I am certain that it was not rebuilt by Bosch.

The good news is that the second one worked. The first shop was a good shop in the nineties when the dad was running it and I dealt with him. He has passed away and his two sons are running it. Nice guys, not dishonest or out to cheat anybody but the shop is a filthy mess and the the effort they are putting in is just not adequate to ensure a quality rebuild. They do not have a setup to test rebuilt pumps.

The second shop was just dishonest. When the owner quoted me $800 and I was questioning him on the quality of the rebuild, he assured me it was Bosch rebuilt just to make the sale, when he very well knew it was not.

I wasted an enormous amount of time on this pump and would have been ahead if I had just spent the $1300 for a new pump originally.

Moving onto the wider topic of rebuilt units sold by parts stores, I hear that they are of questionable quality. Cardone especially has a poor reputation. The rebuilding process has been humorously described as akin to dredging up old units from the bottom of a lake and then spraying a coat of paint on them.

The same shenanigans go in the auto repair business. I am glad I do my own work on my truck. It has never darkened the doors of the dealership since it rolled off their lot eleven years ago.

Lots of corners being cut. A honest days work seems foreign to a lot of folks.


2006 GMC Sierra 4.3l, NV3500,G80 , Mobil 1 5W30, Dexcool.
1987 BMW R80 - sold
2015 Honda CBR300R

Staying out of the right lane a lot.
Re: Incompetence, Mendacity in the Rebuilding Industry [Re: George7941] #4659025
02/07/18 01:34 PM
02/07/18 01:34 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,454
Baltimore, Maryland, USA
zzyzzx Offline
zzyzzx  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,454
Baltimore, Maryland, USA
Last time I looked at a rebuilt (in this case A/C compressor) they didn't even bother cleaning the case properly before painting it. So they painted over dirt. That and the fact that they decided to paint it instead of cleaning it properly was more then enough to keep me from considering it. It's like they aren't even trying!

Re: Incompetence, Mendacity in the Rebuilding Industry [Re: George7941] #4659045
02/07/18 01:51 PM
02/07/18 01:51 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,387
Fort Lauderdale, FL
DoubleWasp Offline
DoubleWasp  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,387
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Rebuilt AC compressor is always a huge no-no. Just look at the very temporary warranties on them, and the writing is on the wall.

Rebuilt power steering components are a real tossup. Gotten good results from very competent hydraulic shops.


07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
68 Charger R/T / Supercharged 440 VR1/DBL7349
07 Ram 3500 4x4 / Cummins 6.7 /DBL7349
17 Maserati GranTurismo Cabrio
Re: Incompetence, Mendacity in the Rebuilding Industry [Re: George7941] #4659046
02/07/18 01:51 PM
02/07/18 01:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,226
Central Virginia
Silverado12 Offline
Silverado12  Offline
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,226
Central Virginia
I've bought rebuilt parts from NAPA (alternator and calipers) and they were good. I hear it's hit and miss.


12 Chevy Silverado ext. cab LS, 2WD 4.3 auto
18 Mustang GT 5.0 auto
07 Harley Dyna Street Bob 96 c.i. 6 sp.
00 Mustang GT auto
Re: Incompetence, Mendacity in the Rebuilding Industry [Re: George7941] #4659049
02/07/18 01:52 PM
02/07/18 01:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 966
SF BAY AREA, CA
dogememe Offline
dogememe  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 966
SF BAY AREA, CA
Yeah, pretty much all parts store and online retailer remanufactured stuff is Cardone. It all sucks. Calipers, power steering pumps, steering gearboxes, all garbage. I hate it. I think most alternators/starters are done by bbb industries which is [censored] too. i went through three alternators on my 92 chevy 1500 before i just went back to the original alternator that worked but made a little noise. one was dead, one made noise too, and one had messed up threads so i couldn't even install it.

But it's an industry-wide problem and it's not going to solve itself.

Then again last time I decided to get the new water pump and not the rebuilt one, the new one was defective and the rebuilt one worked long enough to sell the car lol. And other new parts, especially anything Dorman, is trash. Replacement radiators leak 1/2 the time, except that might be due to handling/packaging, you don't wanna know how often we drop them at work or they are sent in on the pallet with heavy stuff on top of them). I can't imagine ordering a radiator online for the same reason. We got a report from a commercial customer they installed our cheapo China house brand ball joint on a Suburban, it cracked a few months after that while the customer was driving in a parking lot. Our company paid the labor claim and guess what went back in, another cheap China part from the same brand. Sure, I just put that same brand cheap stuff on my Suburban for pitman and idler arms, but if/when I need ball joints it's going to get something good.

Last edited by dogememe; 02/07/18 02:00 PM.

2007 Crown Vic P71 4.6 ~127K Miles, RP HPS 5W-30, RP 20-820, Daily Driver.
2010 Escape FWD 2.5 ~90K Miles, Castrol Edge EP 5W-30, Wix 51348, Rented on Turo.
Re: Incompetence, Mendacity in the Rebuilding Industry [Re: George7941] #4659069
02/07/18 02:02 PM
02/07/18 02:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,543
NH
supton Offline
supton  Offline
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,543
NH
Originally Posted By: George7941
Lots of corners being cut. A honest days work seems foreign to a lot of folks.

Are most people willing to pay for a quality part? IMO most are only willing when it's new, and on a new vehicle. Everyone else thinks it oughta be free.

Re: Incompetence, Mendacity in the Rebuilding Industry [Re: George7941] #4659088
02/07/18 02:18 PM
02/07/18 02:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 21,634
Orlando, FL
Mr Nice Offline
Mr Nice  Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 21,634
Orlando, FL
Quote:
I needed to replace the power steering pump in a Freightliner truck and a new one from Freightliner is $1300. Because of the cost I looked into rebuilt ones.


Something that important and heavy duty I wouldn't hesitate to buy a brand new OEM pump. Of course 2nd shop was lying and had it rebuilt from another company, not Bosch.

Same goes for my cars, I'll spend more money and get a quality brand new parts...

Re: Incompetence, Mendacity in the Rebuilding Industry [Re: George7941] #4659099
02/07/18 02:31 PM
02/07/18 02:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 188
Canadia
fsdork Offline
fsdork  Offline
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 188
Canadia
It seems like a simple solution. If you are dissatisfied with the quality and/or pricing in the rebuilt market, buy the new part from Freightliner.


2011 Ford F-150 Lariat S/C 6.2L 4x4 - 76K km
2003 Ford Explorer Limited 4.6L 4x4 - 202K km
Re: Incompetence, Mendacity in the Rebuilding Industry [Re: George7941] #4659100
02/07/18 02:31 PM
02/07/18 02:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 170
Kevil,Ky
vwmaniaman Offline
vwmaniaman  Offline
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 170
Kevil,Ky
Got an AC compressor from O Reilly that was rebuilt on 3 different cars and they have all been good. Alhave worked for several summers.


Don't waste your time on a slipshod repair.
Re: Incompetence, Mendacity in the Rebuilding Industry [Re: George7941] #4659104
02/07/18 02:33 PM
02/07/18 02:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,343
Kansas
Kruse Offline
Kruse  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,343
Kansas
The results you got are common in the industry and a lot of it is price-driven.
A few years ago an acquaintance bought a rebuilt starter from a national chain store and decided to keep the core. The store was a good hour away and when he got it home, it didn't fit. He called them up and they told him if he could just change the nose cone on it. After taking it apart, NOTHING had been replaced internally and it wasn't even cleaned up. It still had the old brushes and bushings inside of it and the internals were filty. All it had was new paint on the outside. The only good side to this was that his replacement worked.
Last fall, my brother had a 1970 F600 grain truck that had an alternator fail on it. I had no replacement parts on hand and we needed it replaced on a Sunday afternoon, as harvest was in full swing. I got one from O'Reillys for about $35. The amazing thing was NOT the fact that it was rebuilt in China, but that O'Reillys could ship old alternators to China, have it "rebuilt", ship them back through all the usual channels, only charge $35 for it and make money on it.

Re: Incompetence, Mendacity in the Rebuilding Industry [Re: DoubleWasp] #4659109
02/07/18 02:37 PM
02/07/18 02:37 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,454
Baltimore, Maryland, USA
zzyzzx Offline
zzyzzx  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,454
Baltimore, Maryland, USA
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Rebuilt AC compressor is always a huge no-no. Just look at the very temporary warranties on them, and the writing is on the wall.


I know. I was in the auto parts store for something else and just wanted to look at the rebuilt A/C compressor out of morbid curiosity.

Re: Incompetence, Mendacity in the Rebuilding Industry [Re: George7941] #4659110
02/07/18 02:38 PM
02/07/18 02:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 21,634
Orlando, FL
Mr Nice Offline
Mr Nice  Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 21,634
Orlando, FL
Quote:
The amazing thing was NOT the fact that it was rebuilt in China, but that O'Reillys could ship old alternators to China, have it "rebuilt", ship them back through all the usual channels, only charge $35 for it and make money on it.


Yeah, very scary knowing that it could be shipped to China and back with a profit for only $35


George,
What model Freightliner do you own ?

Re: Incompetence, Mendacity in the Rebuilding Industry [Re: George7941] #4659114
02/07/18 02:39 PM
02/07/18 02:39 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 20,758
Upstate NY
Donald Online content
Donald  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 20,758
Upstate NY
Much of the rebuilt stuff for cars is done in Mexico. A guy at a rebuild shop I have been to says the stuff from Mexico has broken parts replaced. But his shop will replace the diode bridge vs solder in a new diode (Mexico). As an example.

When you get a rebuilt brake caliper, did they polish the piston and pins or replace. Hard to tell with a piston unless you popped it out to examine which no one would do.

Part of the equation is how easy is it to get the part in and out. Brake caliper is pretty easy. The PS pump the OP mentions not so easy.

But from an environmental standpoint we need to rebuild/reuse stuff. Cannot toss everything in the trash.


2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: Incompetence, Mendacity in the Rebuilding Industry [Re: Mr Nice] #4659122
02/07/18 02:53 PM
02/07/18 02:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 17,362
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Chris142 Offline
Chris142  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 17,362
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice


Something that important and heavy duty I wouldn't hesitate to buy a brand new OEM pump. .
exactly!no way should you use a rebuild part on something like a semi truck. You depend on that truck so the only sensible option is new. The rebuilt won't last as long as the OE one did so you will be redoing the job again.


02 Wrangler durablend 10w40
87 F250 traveler 15w40
04 Tahoe super-s 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am maveric edge 5w40
57 case tractor 15w40
Re: Incompetence, Mendacity in the Rebuilding Industry [Re: DoubleWasp] #4659123
02/07/18 02:54 PM
02/07/18 02:54 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,202
Toronto, Canada
George7941 Offline OP
George7941  Offline OP
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,202
Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Rebuilt power steering components are a real tossup. Gotten good results from very competent hydraulic shops.

Thank you for that suggestion. It never crossed my mind that hydraulic shops could do it. I deal with a very good hydraulic shop, mostly for rebuilding forklift components and the occasional hydraulic hose for trucks. They are a bit expensive but they do not cut corners. I have never had one of their rebuilt forklift components fail. After I read your post I checked with them and they said they could rebuild this ZF pump. Will try them next time.
http://www.actionhydraulics.ca/


2006 GMC Sierra 4.3l, NV3500,G80 , Mobil 1 5W30, Dexcool.
1987 BMW R80 - sold
2015 Honda CBR300R

Staying out of the right lane a lot.
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