What is the quality of ATK heads (small block Ford)?

[Astro14]

A friend’s 2001 Ford Explorer with a small block Ford just blew a head gasket. He is considering options, before we pull this into my shop.

One option, buying a set of ATK rebuilt heads from JEG’s https://www.jegs.com/i/ATK-Engines/...make=FORD&model=EXPLORER&submodel=EDDIE+BAUER

The other option is to have his heads rebuilt locally.

I am in favor of the rebuilt heads in order to minimize tying up the shop with his Explorer. Having the parts on hand means we can knock out in a weekend.

But I don‘t know if this set is good or not.

 

[Cujet]

I wish I knew the answer. There are a mixed reviews online. One guy claims Chinese parts are used. Since these are (I think) just cast iron heads, and exceedingly simple, I'd guess they'd work just fine. They probably knurl the guides, cut the seats, mill the surface and send them on their way.

 

[meep]

That head has no review on Jegs, but other ATK heads of Jegs have reviews. Of the three i read:
1. One set worked fine.
2. One head had been re-threaded, off center, for the exhaust manifold. Had to leave the last bold out.
3. One head had been re-threaded with the wrong size thread, forcing the owner to use two different types of spark plugs.

I would not spend my money here, at all.

 

[DuckRyder]

Neither Summit or Jegs actually have these in stock, you cant actually order them on Summit which might mean Jegs drop ship date is wildly inaccurate. Also there appears to be a core charge and if core shipping isn't free its going to cost a bunch to ship (probably more than the core charge).

ATK in general has been hit or miss.

That said there is absolutely no way I would trade an original set of Ford GT40P heads for a production remanufactured set. I probably wouldn't even send them out unless they checked as warped with a straight edge. Take them apart, lap the valves by hand, replace the seals and head gaskets and rock on, if they aren't straight send them out locally. Windsors are not known for warping heads.

 

[Marcozi]

Astro, isn't there some shop in your area that can do this work. Also, I'm a fan of Fantom Works (MT TV). This shop islaocated in Norfolk. The shop sends its engine work to a reputable engine rebuilder. I'd contact Fantom Works to see of the engine shop can rebuild the heads. https://fantomworks.com/

 

[bullwinkle]

302? Those seemed pretty indestructible-I almost wonder what another engine would cost for it, might be a cheaper option. Could just put some new gaskets on it & put it in(?) There seems to be a few around SE VA in the $500 range.

 

[fantastic]

I'd have a reputable engine shop go through them if priced right. Make sure they do take off at least a small surface of the heads (mill the heads). You might have to go with shorter push rods but I'd get with the engine shop on that one depending on how much they take off. But if they're warped bad enough from overheating? then grab the rebuilt ones online.

 

[Chris142]

Usually not very good. I'd trust a local shop more than an engine mill. While not atk I put a rebuilt engine in a truck 25 years ago and the valves were not sealing 20 k later and burned a few.

 

[Nukeman7]

I have not used them, but it seems like these guys know how to do it right. The description of their re-manufacturing process includes vacuum testing which is critical to ensure the valves are sealing correctly. The 2 yr., unlimited mile warranty would give you some peace of mind.

Clearwater Cylinder Heads

 

[D60]

I had a cracked head on a 351. Was running fine aside from a dead hole unrelated to the crack. Only showed up w flux of course. So, I'd either slap it back together and hope or have them done locally and completely inspected.

OTOH, if the ATKs do work, how much more life does the overall vehicle have?

And excellent point on exhaust manifolds! I'd make sure they bolt on before even lifting a new head into the engine bay

 

[The_Eric]

I have worked as a mechanic now for approximately 13yrs and the amount of absolute garbage that has come from ATK is shocking to me. It is to the point that they couldn't pay me to install their products.

Edit - I recognize that they are a huge company with huge volumes of product and with that come larger amounts of problems, but I seemed to have found a disproportionately high amount.

 

[Trav]

It has been many years decades even since I did heads on an American V8 but I used to do them a lot especially old Buick nail heads.
I believe the engine you are working on used graphite head gaskets, the old Buick used steel shim gaskets, both types are prone to failure (Subaru also used graphite that failed at an alarming rate).
If there was no overheating the chance are you don't need replacement heads or a machine shop. You can do these yourself, by cleaning the gasket surface and checking it with a straight edge. if it is okay you are in the home stretch.

I learned these tricks many years ago from the old timer that taught me, remove the valve springs with a socket and hammer to remove the keepers, you need a compressor to install but don't waste time removing them, put the socket on the spring and give it good solid hit and the keepers will just fall out in the socket.

Check the guides with a dial indicator, if okay (old iron guides usually are) remove the valves and clean everything up and lap the valves with lapping compound.
Check the valve seal with a regular pencil, put a line every 1/4" around the valve seat, drop the valve in gently and squarely then turn it 1/4 turn, if the pencil marks are gone the valve and seat is sealed properly, clean off any compound. Reassemble, use a stock thickness quality gasket like Cometic and its good to go.
This can easily be done in an afternoon and cost very little in materials.

 

[snarl]

@Astro14 Why are you replacing the heads ?

 

[dfarr67]

What about EQ?

 

[Astro14]

Astro, isn't there some shop in your area that can do this work. Also, I'm a fan of Fantom Works (MT TV). This shop islaocated in Norfolk. The shop sends its engine work to a reputable engine rebuilder. I'd contact Fantom Works to see of the engine shop can rebuild the heads. https://fantomworks.com/

There is a reputable shop - mine!

In all honesty, this is work well within my capability. The question is one of parts, and how to approach it. I have a couple of projects that I am working through, and I would prefer that this project not take long, so I can work on my own stuff.

I’ve sat with Dan Short in his office, and we discussed doing the Packard as an episode. We outlined some details, talked cost and timing, and were moving forward with it in 2017, and then, my youngest got into a rather expensive college…so we tabled the discussion. I like Dan and the team, and I would trust them.

I am not sure that Fantom Works is in my buddy’s budget, though, and so, we are looking at options for him to get the work done. My buddy is the owner of the 1975 Mercedes 450SL to which I have referred in previous posts. That project was slated to be couple weekends, but, well, we discovered more issues, and it ended up taking a year.

 

[DuckRyder]

For those who maybe unaware this explorer has GT40P heads. These were a sought after upgrade back in the day for the budget minded, sort of along the lines of those off brand “vortec” heads. I suspect the cores are pretty dried up. These heads have some unique features and I’m not sure you could use a set of regular aftermarket performance heads withe the factory exhaust manifolds due to plug angles, but if I found myself needin heads I’d look into it.

Though less popular now with newer swaps out there there was a time this engine would be worth more than the truck complete,

 

[Astro14]

@Astro14 Why are you replacing the heads ?

Not necessarily replacing them, just helping my buddy do the research.

We just chatted about it, and he wants to keep the heads. It has 230,000 miles on it. Doesn’t use oil. Had a good compression check last year.

So, keep the bottom end, keep these heads, probably just lap the valves, install new stem seals, new head gaskets, and put it back in service.

 

[Astro14]

It has been many years decades even since I did heads on an American V8 but I used to do them a lot especially old Buick nail heads.
I believe the engine you are working on used graphite head gaskets, the old Buick used steel shim gaskets, both types are prone to failure (Subaru also used graphite that failed at an alarming rate).
If there was no overheating the chance are you don't need replacement heads or a machine shop. You can do these yourself, by cleaning the gasket surface and checking it with a straight edge. if it is okay you are in the home stretch.

I learned these tricks many years ago from the old timer that taught me, remove the valve springs with a socket and hammer to remove the keepers, you need a compressor to install but don't waste time removing them, put the socket on the spring and give it good solid hit and the keepers will just fall out in the socket.

Check the guides with a dial indicator, if okay (old iron guides usually are) remove the valves and clean everything up and lap the valves with lapping compound.
Check the valve seal with a regular pencil, put a line every 1/4" around the valve seat, drop the valve in gently and squarely then turn it 1/4 turn, if the pencil marks are gone the valve and seat is sealed properly, clean off any compound. Reassemble, use a stock thickness quality gasket like Cometic and its good to go.
This can easily be done in an afternoon and cost very little in materials.

Your advice, as usual, is insightful and much appreciated. He and I talked, and came up with basically that plan.

I’ve got to check and see if I have a dial indicator, if not, then my toolbox is, once again, in need of more tools!

Edit: I do. I have a Starrett. With a Starrett magnetic base. Bought about five years ago, but since I have not had to use it, I wasn’t sure…