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#4649260 - 01/28/18 03:47 PM Microns. What's most damage inducing?
RamFan Offline


Registered: 05/09/10
Posts: 1974
Loc: Illinois, U.S.A
I've been on this site for quite a while, and I've seen this topic brought up from time to time but I haven't been able to find conclusive evidence. It's been a while since this was discussed (that I noticed) so I thought I'd bring this up again.

What micron rating has been shown to cause the most damage? I've seen conflicting information on this topic, some sources state that anything under 2 microns are too small to cause any damage as most clearances are larger than 2 microns. Other sources note that 2-10 microns are the damage causing particles, while others state damage occurs with particles up to 20 microns.

I started looking into this because I noticed a decent amount of variance among filter manufacturers and their efficiency (not nominal) ratings. I'll use the following as an example as they all have a similar price point.

PureOne 14612 ($5.75) - 99.9% @ 40um ISO 4548-12
EcoGard S4612 ($5.31) - 99.9% @ 30um ISO 4548-12
Fram TG6607($6.69) - 99% @ >20um ISO 4548-12 based on average of TG8A, 3387A, & 4967
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#4649280 - 01/28/18 04:12 PM Re: Microns. What's most damage inducing? [Re: RamFan]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 17795
Loc: PNW
From the sources I've read on the subject, particles less than 20 microns contribute to the most wear. Pretty much what you've stated above.

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#4649300 - 01/28/18 04:30 PM Re: Microns. What's most damage inducing? [Re: RamFan]
CT8 Offline


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 11020
Loc: Idaho
The ones that get ingested.
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#4649304 - 01/28/18 04:33 PM Re: Microns. What's most damage inducing? [Re: RamFan]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 18909
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
popcorn
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#4649337 - 01/28/18 05:13 PM Re: Microns. What's most damage inducing? [Re: RamFan]
MasterSolenoid Offline


Registered: 09/26/17
Posts: 168
Loc: One Step Beyond
25.4 microns = .001 inch

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#4649375 - 01/28/18 06:01 PM Re: Microns. What's most damage inducing? [Re: RamFan]
Jonzobot Offline


Registered: 06/16/16
Posts: 47
Loc: Planet Earth
I believe that the <20 micron cause the most wear (I believe there have been SAE studies on this - e.g. http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/sae_filtration_study/index.html); however it is also my understanding that this wear is dwarfed by cold-startup wear in the average gasoline automobile. The more highway miles driven (and the fewer startups) means the particulate wear becomes more of an issue.

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#4649397 - 01/28/18 06:14 PM Re: Microns. What's most damage inducing? [Re: RamFan]
newtoncd8 Offline


Registered: 01/18/03
Posts: 872
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: RamFan
I started looking into this because I noticed a decent amount of variance among filter manufacturers and their efficiency (not nominal) ratings. I'll use the following as an example as they all have a similar price point.

PureOne 14612 ($5.75) - 99.9% @ 40um ISO 4548-12
EcoGard S4612 ($5.31) - 99.9% @ 30um ISO 4548-12
Fram TG6607($6.69) - 99% @ >20um ISO 4548-12 based on average of TG8A, 3387A, & 4967


To add to the list:
Honda A02 - 65% @20um
Toyota OEM - 50% @20um
Wix - 99% @ 23um
Wix XP - 99% @ 35um

In for the discussion as I usually use OEM filters.
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#4649428 - 01/28/18 06:46 PM Re: Microns. What's most damage inducing? [Re: RamFan]
FermeLaPorte Offline


Registered: 07/25/17
Posts: 472
Loc: Texas (south)
I would't worry so much.
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#4649431 - 01/28/18 06:48 PM Re: Microns. What's most damage inducing? [Re: RamFan]
Vuflanovsky Offline


Registered: 12/15/14
Posts: 1168
Loc: California
I'm no tribologist but I'm not sure you can answer your question in the way it's asked. The type of contact is what determines abrasive wear...and if there are soft and hard particles in that same micron size doing different things then a demarcation line of 20 or 40 microns probably doesn't give you an accurate portrayal. If some particulate has more eroding or etching properties than others over a 20-40 micron range then I would think it's more about the type of particulate than the micron size x however many miles. Old oil versus new oil...or that guy on here that says the best oil filter is a good air filter.

I believe that's why they use constant and relational algorithms to closer determine both the size and type of particles in analyzing wear. It's not so much a one dimensional question.

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#4649432 - 01/28/18 06:51 PM Re: Microns. What's most damage inducing? [Re: Jonzobot]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 17795
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: Jonzobot
I believe that the <20 micron cause the most wear (I believe there have been SAE studies on this - e.g. http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/sae_filtration_study/index.html); however it is also my understanding that this wear is dwarfed by cold-startup wear in the average gasoline automobile. The more highway miles driven (and the fewer startups) means the particulate wear becomes more of an issue.


Yep, cold start-up wear is definitely in the mix.

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#4649453 - 01/28/18 07:10 PM Re: Microns. What's most damage inducing? [Re: RamFan]
MParr Offline


Registered: 10/28/17
Posts: 515
Loc: Georgia
Think of it this way, what happens in the lab stays in the lab. Normal or severe operating conditions will never replicate lab conditions.
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#4649456 - 01/28/18 07:13 PM Re: Microns. What's most damage inducing? [Re: RamFan]
slacktide_bitog Offline


Registered: 03/20/08
Posts: 6182
Loc: USA
Motorking said in a video somewhere that 10-20 microns is the most damaging range. I can't seem to find which video it is, though crzy

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#4649458 - 01/28/18 07:14 PM Re: Microns. What's most damage inducing? [Re: MParr]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 17795
Loc: PNW
To add ... engines under heavy and sustained loads can cause more engine wear, especially in the rod and crank journal bearings because of higher oil temperatures, and therefore a resulting lower MOFT between the parts. Get an oil cooler if heavy towing loads are something your vehicle experiences on a regular basis.

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#4649467 - 01/28/18 07:21 PM Re: Microns. What's most damage inducing? [Re: RamFan]
danez_yoda Offline


Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 471
Loc: texas
If you are happy with 200k miles of engine service, change the oil at the manufacturers intervals with the manufacturers suggested oil and filter. Any engine failure will not be particulate wear related.

If your looking for a 1million mile car. Thats different but a few toyota hold that title with no special filter or oil.

My cars at least 10 or so have regularly run over 150k before being sold in fine running condition.

All of this banter on optimizing oil and filterperformance is mainly for fun not necessity.

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#4649552 - 01/28/18 08:52 PM Re: Microns. What's most damage inducing? [Re: danez_yoda]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6178
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: danez_yoda

If your looking for a 1million mile car. Thats different but a few toyota hold that title with no special filter or oil.


There are a LOT (and I do mean a lot) of F150's and F250's with 500,000 miles
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