Tesla Model 3 brief review

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Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Even at 57K, this car appears to offer exceptional performance as compared to anything else you'd get for that kind of coin.

You're kidding, right?

Alfa Romeo Giulia
Audi A4
Jaguar XE
BMW 340i
Cadillac ATS
Mercedes C-Class
....all 4-door sports cars like the Tesla Model 3 is.
.... AND can all be had for Tesla Model 3 levels of coin.

The 340i has the acceleration, and the rest are very desirable. People considering a Tesla or on the waiting list now really want an electric, to be sure, but there are many ways to spend the same money for VERY attractive rides.
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies


The 340i has the acceleration,



From a "pleasing" point of view, no it doesn't. The Tesla family of electric cars have instant response. No downshifting, no lag, no throttle by wire manipulation of power during shifts and so on.

We are driving fast down a divided road, brake hard, pull a U-Turn and accelerate. The Tesla Model 3 does it like no other vehicle. An automatic Mustang, Corvette or BMW gets confused during the hard braking and universally has delay while finding the right gear, that's why they all have a "track" mode. Try multiple rapid throttle inputs on that BMW (such as when driving in traffic) and watch the car fail to respond rapidly as it downshifts and upshifts and limits throttle during those shifts.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet
We are driving fast down a divided road, brake hard, pull a U-Turn and accelerate. The Tesla Model 3 does it like no other vehicle. An automatic Mustang, Corvette or BMW gets confused during the hard braking and universally has delay while finding the right gear, that's why they all have a "track" mode. Try multiple rapid throttle inputs on that BMW (such as when driving in traffic) and watch the car fail to respond rapidly as it downshifts and upshifts and limits throttle during those shifts.

At Willow Springs or similar race tracks, it will be interesting to see how the Tesla Model 3 does against a Camaro SS, BMW 340i, etc.... Stay tuned!
For legal driving when there are cops & traffic & passengers & safety concerns(CTPSC), the 340i and other hot sport sedans I listed above are very pleasing to drive. Wow, you've got to drive like a maniac to really value the difference between that list and the Model 3. The real world is CTPSC where airbags could go off if you're timing & vision is off. We need to be predictable in traffic. Just look at how many sport-bikes (ninja) get splashed all over the road every year.
 
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Also Telsa would cut the power quickly on a real track as the drive train gets too hot.

Assuming I get the full tax deduction ($7.5K fed), then Tesla 3 becomes very hard to beat from that list of cars.
 
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Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies

For legal driving when there are cops & traffic & passengers & safety concerns(CTPSC), the 340i and other hot sport sedans I listed above are very pleasing to drive. Wow, you've got to drive like a maniac to really value the difference between that list and the Model 3. The real world is CTPSC where airbags could go off if you're timing & vision is off. We need to be predictable in traffic. Just look at how many sport-bikes (ninja) get splashed all over the road every year.


I knew that was coming....

But that's simply not true. In cruise, behind a car that needs to be passed, highlights the same benefit of delay free power. We are ALL used to cars that upshift into high gear as soon as practical, for economical reasons. The Tesla Model 3 does no such thing as it only has one gear ratio. It's ready immediately. To say that the "other" way is right, is incorrect.

We have needed instant response all along, it's one reason passionate drivers still like manual transmissions, responsive engines and high HP. The Tesla negates the need for any of that. And it does so while being near silent, drama free and very, very pleasing.

I compare the modern car to a well refined steam engine. It's very capable, complex and over the next few decades, will be replaced by something better. Something akin to a Model 3 with 600 miles range will eventually happen.

Note: In a "Moore's Law" kind of way, Battery capacity is steadily increasing at 7% per year, non compounding. So it will take about 15 years before electric cars have the range of a Jetta TDI, for example.
 
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The real world theoretical limit is 850 W-hr/kg. Now we are around 200 W-hr/kg, which means that we can gain a factor of 4 before we hit the electrochemical storage limit. With a growth rate of around 7% we hit this limit in about 20 years.

Leading to a Model 3 type car with a range of about 1300 miles.
 
If one hasn't driven a tesla yet - it is nearly impossible to describe the immediacy of the power.

closest thing if youve been around for a while would be an old school big block in a stick shift car in 1st or second gear - all the time.

jab it and WHAM you are pinned to the seat - no unlocking of a torque converter, no downshifting, no RPM increase needed - its there right now

They are immensely pleasing to drive in town and on the freeway.

The new roadster claims 600+ miles of range from a 200KWH battery pack.

UD
 
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Originally Posted By: Vikas
Also Telsa would cut the power quickly on a real track as the drive train gets too hot.

Assuming I get the full tax deduction ($7.5K fed), then Tesla 3 becomes very hard to beat from that list of cars.


Unfortunately more than a few gas sports cars/sedans can't control temperatures on a track either, maybe only a lap or two later.
I do wonder how drastic the power cut is on a Tesla? Especially on a rwd Model 3, it still should be pretty interesting to drive even with only 3/4 power on a smaller track atleast. Lots of steering with the right foot should be possible.
I'd assume with the new Tesla roadster, cooling for full power will be a priority, and maybe after they get that sorted out, Tesla will release a "track pack" option for the S and the 3.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Assuming I get the full tax deduction ($7.5K fed), then Tesla 3 becomes very hard to beat from that list of cars.
That $7,500 taxpayer supported subsidy is gone since Tesla is about to pass the production limits. Forget that one. (Still maybe state tax subsidies though.).


Originally Posted By: Vikas
Also Telsa would cut the power quickly on a real track as the drive train gets too hot.

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Unfortunately more than a few gas sports cars/sedans can't control temperatures on a track either, maybe only a lap or two later.
I do wonder how drastic the power cut is on a Tesla? Especially on a rwd Model 3, it still should be pretty interesting to drive even with only 3/4 power on a smaller track atleast. Lots of steering with the right foot should be possible.
I'd assume with the new Tesla roadster, cooling for full power will be a priority, and maybe after they get that sorted out, Tesla will release a "track pack" option for the S and the 3.


As for as track performance, which isn't what the Tesla Model S was designed for, it does overheat. Here is an account:

"At this point, the fun stopped. Coming out of turn 11 for the long back straight to turn 12, I noticed the car was severely down on power. I looked at my buddy and asked what was going on. He said the battery was overheated, and was protecting itself, but once it cooled off it would come back. I hoped the long straight at half throttle would do that, but it didn't. I didn't actually get power back until the front straight, and then again, it pooped out somewhere between turn 8 and 11 on the several laps after that." -- https://www.quora.com/How-does-a-Tesla-perform-on-a-track

Everyday driving wouldn't get into heating limits unless you're driving it like a Ninja motorcycle weaving in traffic. Come to think of it, some will hit the heat limits, maybe before they hit a mini-van full of kids.....
 
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That $7,500 taxpayer supported subsidy is gone since Tesla is about to pass the production limits. Forget that one. (Still maybe state tax subsidies though.).

I do not believe you are right. It will not be gone for few quarters but I don't think it affects you.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Quote:
That $7,500 taxpayer supported subsidy is gone since Tesla is about to pass the production limits. Forget that one. (Still maybe state tax subsidies though.).
I do not believe you are right. It will not be gone for few quarters but I don't think it affects you.

Tesla has about 50,000 cars left that will have the entire $7,500 credit, applied to the Model S, X, and 3 together. Which means the rebates get cut down in about 6 months from now, and eliminated entirely about 6 months after that.
Given there are currently 400,000 reservations for the Model 3, there is no chance you'll get the full $7,500 if you "buy" a Model 3 now by putting money down.
(The $7,500 gets cut in half after its out ($3,750), then cut in half again before finally petering out to zero in a few months after.)
Keep in mind the 400,000 reservation holders and how we would be in line behind them now.
Unless the senate & house pass new legislation renewing or expanding the $7,500, very unlikely with the current set of senators/reps in there now.
 
You are absolutely right but I have first day reservation as non-owner. I am hoping to receive mine "soon" but really have no idea how soon that would be.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet



I compare the modern car to a well refined steam engine.


And yet you're going to by flying steam engine airplanes well well well beyond the foreseeable future.
wink.gif
 
Tesla will have a very hard time if other major manufacturers, such as Porsche, introduce their take on an all electric car.

And they will be able to actually produce them in quantity...
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Tesla will have a very hard time if other major manufacturers, such as Porsche, introduce their take on an all electric car.

And they will be able to actually produce them in quantity...

I think $35k at Porsche gets you a hat and a bicycle, perhaps an electric one... But I do wonder why no one has made a Model S competitor yet? I assume the motor and speed controller are pretty simple to design and manufacture, so is it the batteries that are holding them up? They don't want to buy Tesla's but can't develop or buy other batteries as good?
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Tesla will have a very hard time if other major manufacturers, such as Porsche, introduce their take on an all electric car.

And they will be able to actually produce them in quantity...

I think $35k at Porsche gets you a hat and a bicycle, perhaps an electric one... But I do wonder why no one has made a Model S competitor yet? I assume the motor and speed controller are pretty simple to design and manufacture, so is it the batteries that are holding them up? They don't want to buy Tesla's but can't develop or buy other batteries as good?

you forget that little thingy called "chinese know-how" (I mean, take technology from others...)... chinese firms have been trying to enter the North American market for some time...
And like SteveSrt8 is saying, the majors are not sleeping since the NA and Europe and some Asia political direction is "we go electric no matter waht"
 
The Model 3 sounds like a really neat car.

For me the only real downsides are:
1. Production can't seem to get off the ground
2. The cars seem to have a fair amount of quality control issues (Teslas in general)
3. There isn't enough support for them (both repair network and energy-wise in more rural areas)

While working in the insurance industry I saw many frustrated owners who had to wait months for their Teslas to get repaired from accidents. The parts were also extremely expensive, so to avoid this headache the insurance company would sometimes total out a borderline repairable vehicle. This left the owner without a car and going back on the waiting list for another one. Lots of unhappy customers whenever Teslas were involved in a claim.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
But I do wonder why no one has made a Model S competitor yet? I assume the motor and speed controller are pretty simple to design and manufacture, so is it the batteries that are holding them up? They don't want to buy Tesla's but can't develop or buy other batteries as good?

Battery supply is a big issue, so I think you nailed it. They could hook up with the S. Koreans like GM did, maybe even in a joint venture with Ford-GM-etc. for buying power. ... Porsche could produce a 100%-electric version of their current Panamera E-Hybrid to compete directly with the expensive Tesla Model S. The Tesla crowd would love a Panamera chassis.

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
And yet you're going to by flying steam engine airplanes well well well beyond the foreseeable future.
wink.gif


http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/27/technology/electric-plane-easyjet-wright/index.html
Its happening. Probably 20 - 30 years away really though.
 
Current estimate says that I will have the car by March 2018. With Fed+Mass tax rebate totalling $10K, the $54K Model 3 as configured (35 + 9 extended range + 5 premium interior + 5 enhanced autopilot + black color + aero wheels = ) $54K will effectively cost me $44K. Still *big pile of* money but not many vehicles will be able to touch it at that price.

The good or the bad part is that the price is what it is. To be able to compare it with other vehicles, we need to know the actual selling price rather than the list price. For example, that gold Chevy SS 6-speed might be listed for $55K but if it is sitting at the dealer's lot for last six months, I could get it for $45K. (I have no idea if SS are discounted or not; that was just an example; I could have used Acura TLX or RLX instead).

With Tesla, you write the check for the exact amount. There is no haggling.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Current estimate says that I will have the car by March 2018. With Fed+Mass tax rebate totalling $10K, the $54K Model 3 as configured (35 + 9 extended range + 5 premium interior + 5 enhanced autopilot + black color + aero wheels = ) $54K will effectively cost me $44K. Still *big pile of* money but not many vehicles will be able to touch it at that price. .. The good or the bad part is that the price is what it is. To be able to compare it with other vehicles, we need to know the actual selling price rather than the list price.

I used TrueCar.com to get the actual market prices. MSRP is junk. TrueCar has accurate numbers.
Other sport sedans which are pretty cool:
Alfa Romeo Giulia
Audi A4
Jaguar XE
BMW 340i
Cadillac ATS
Mercedes C-Class
Of the list, the 340i really does sell for $45k typically, so the Fed+State rebates you get make the Tesla very competitive.
The Jag can be had for as little as $32k though, something to consider, probably the bargain in the group.
I think the rest go for around $40k or so depending on options of course.

That Fed-State rebate package does make a lot of difference if someone is on the fence or doesn't have super-deep pockets.
I know I felt pretty smug when I bought a Ford Focus Electric new with heated leather seats, a nav, and allow wheels for $15k cash total after the taxpayers subsidized me!!! And its a fun to drive hot hatch.

One point: You'll pay local sales tax on the FULL amount of the Tesla Model 3, not the discounted Fed-State amount, so your taxes will be higher.
That actually makes your Vikas-optioned Tesla Model 3 cost identical to what you could get a BMW 340i for.
 
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