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Lower the crank to remove rear main rope seal? #4631076
01/11/18 07:26 AM
01/11/18 07:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 25
Germany
OlDirty Offline OP
OlDirty  Offline OP

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 25
Germany
Hello,

I'm currently partly rebuilding the engine from my 1969 Thunderbird. The upper rear main seal is making trouble.
Lower was easy, because I just had to remove the cap and than could peel it off. The upper half won't come out at the moment. Easiest way would be to remove the crankshaft, but I want to avoid that.
Can I loosen the bearing caps in order to lower the crankshaft by an inch or two? I guess that would make things a lot easier.
Is there also a pin in the upper half just like the one in the main bearing cap?

As we're already talking about the crankshaft...what should I bear in mind if I remove it completely?

Thank you!

Last edited by OlDirty; 01/11/18 07:32 AM. Reason: other title

1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9L
1969 Ford Thunderbird 429cui
2006 Audi A4 2.0TDI
Re: Lower the crank to remove rear main rope seal? [Re: OlDirty] #4631083
01/11/18 07:35 AM
01/11/18 07:35 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 21,225
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 21,225
MA, Mittelfranken.de
We did them all the time years ago, you need whats called a Chinese finger. Google for it.

It looks like this..

https://www.ebay.com/i/230874687084?chn=ps

Last edited by Trav; 01/11/18 07:38 AM.

ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Lower the crank to remove rear main rope seal? [Re: OlDirty] #4631087
01/11/18 07:36 AM
01/11/18 07:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 25
Germany
OlDirty Offline OP
OlDirty  Offline OP

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 25
Germany
Or a sneaky pete, I know that tool, but I want to avoid buying something for that job.


1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9L
1969 Ford Thunderbird 429cui
2006 Audi A4 2.0TDI
Re: Lower the crank to remove rear main rope seal? [Re: OlDirty] #4631108
01/11/18 08:16 AM
01/11/18 08:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,150
NH
supton Offline
supton  Offline

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,150
NH
I remember doing this once on a GM 2.8, well not very well I guess, as I don't remember how I did it. I don't recall using any special tool though. Maybe it was a metal shell and just the seal blew out...

I presume you can't just grab it with needle nose pliers? I wonder if you could make a tool out of an old half-seal, and push on one side, and grab on the other? Pop the spark plugs, and turn the crank by hand while pushing on the bad seal--maybe you can get lucky.

How does the bearing shell look in the main cap that you removed? If it's in lousy shape then I'd think to drop the crank and do the bottom end bearings. Maybe plastiguage at the moment, see what clearance you have.


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 179k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 146k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 202k, his
Re: Lower the crank to remove rear main rope seal? [Re: OlDirty] #4631109
01/11/18 08:17 AM
01/11/18 08:17 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,395
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Chris142 Online content
Chris142  Online Content

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,395
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
I always loosen all the mains. No other way to get it in there.


02 Wrangler carlube 5w30
87 F250 traveler 15w40
07 fjcruiser Chevron 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am maveric edge 5w40
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Re: Lower the crank to remove rear main rope seal? [Re: Chris142] #4631167
01/11/18 09:30 AM
01/11/18 09:30 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,991
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,991
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: OlDirty
I want to avoid buying something for that job.

I wonder how many times I have said that.


Originally Posted By: Chris142
I always loosen all the mains. No other way to get it in there.

Yeah.... rope seals are **tight**. I don't see it happening without lowering the crank.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Lower the crank to remove rear main rope seal? [Re: OlDirty] #4631184
01/11/18 09:46 AM
01/11/18 09:46 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,185
Central NY
Miller88 Offline
Miller88  Offline

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,185
Central NY
On my Jeep 4.0 which uses a rubber, not rope seal, I had to loosen up all 7 main bearings to be able to get the old seal out and new seal in.

Be prepared for nasty smelling oil when you loosen up the crank bearings!


18 Forester 2.5I 6M
00 Jeep XJ
01 F-350 4x4 5M
Re: Lower the crank to remove rear main rope seal? [Re: Linctex] #4631186
01/11/18 09:46 AM
01/11/18 09:46 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 13,275
Canyon County Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 13,275
Canyon County Idaho
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: OlDirty
I want to avoid buying something for that job.

I wonder how many times I have said that.


Originally Posted By: Chris142
I always loosen all the mains. No other way to get it in there.

Yeah.... rope seals are **tight**. I don't see it happening without lowering the crank.
That gives you a change to see if the bearings are worn.


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: Lower the crank to remove rear main rope seal? [Re: CT8] #4631327
01/11/18 12:02 PM
01/11/18 12:02 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 2
ky
jerryg Offline
jerryg  Offline

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 2
ky
Get a skinny screw, screw it into old seal so when you bump the starter over using a remote, pull gently on screw seal will come out, crankshaft rotation will help when pulling on seal. Have used this many times.

jerryg

Re: Lower the crank to remove rear main rope seal? [Re: OlDirty] #4631725
01/11/18 07:13 PM
01/11/18 07:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 325
Rockies
Scdevon Offline
Scdevon  Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 325
Rockies
After the rear main bearing cap is removed, just loosen the other cap bolts a couple of turns and pry the crankshaft down a fraction of an inch with a wooden dowel or something. Grab the upper part of the old rope seal with needle nose pliers and pull it out of the upper groove while a helper rotates the crankshaft in the direction it needs to go.

You need "Chinese Fingers" to get the upper rope in. Smear the new upper rope with petroleum jelly after the Chinese Finger contraption is fastened and pull it up and over the crank. Trimming and packing rope seals properly has almost become a lost art, but you have to get it right.
Are you rolling in new main bearings too with the crank in the car?

A two piece rubber replacement seal might be available too. You have to drive out the pointed pin in the lower cap to use them.


2003 Mustang Mach 1. 32V 4.6 Liter. Motorcraft Syn Blend 5W30
1970 Mustang Convertible 302-2V Auto (Stock) M/C 10W30
1970 VW Beetle 1600 DP
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