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Hyundai/Kia Theta II oil pump? #4630866
01/10/18 08:01 PM
01/10/18 08:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,198
Campbellsville, KY
Alex_V Offline OP
Alex_V  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,198
Campbellsville, KY
I have a '11 Kia Sportage in the shop with barely any oil pressure; 182K, Theta II 2.4L MPI engine if my research is right. It came in because the owner was complaining of a noise that, by his description, I thought was going to be a bad belt tensioner, but I've not gotten it to make any noise since I've had it; however, the low oil light would come on after running just a couple minutes, afterward coming on any time the engine dropped to at or near idle. Only DTC was P0014 "Camshaft B timing over-advanced" - I figure this is a result of the low oil pressure. Hooked up a manual gauge at the low press. sensor fitting and it read 2-3 PSI on cold start. Replaced oil filter (Napa Gold both times), no change. I've done the last two OC's with Maxlife in decent proximity to one another - currently the oil looks fairly clean and right at the full mark. Next step, check the pickup screen - pulled the pan and it's clean. No debris in the pan but there's plenty of varnish on the pump and bottom of the bed plate.

My plan was to inspect (in order) the pickup screen, bypass valve, then the pump itself. The drive chain off the crank is intact and appears fine.

I can't find any information on how the pump is designed or where the relief valve is - anybody here with some pointers? It's part of the "balance shaft module" and it's not as simple as a couple bolts to pop it off so if the relief valve can be inspected without removing that assembly that would be preferable.

FYI, the engine still sounds and runs fine so I believe it's still solid and finding/fixing the oil pressure problem will yield a good repair.


To quote a friend, "Synthetics, man."

'85 GMC C3500, 454, 132K
'82 Mercedes 300CD, OM617 turbo, 173K (totaled 2018, in rehab)
'85 Mercedes 300TD, OM617 turbo, 217K (wife's)
'67 Suburban, 350, 331K
Re: Hyundai/Kia Theta II oil pump? [Re: Alex_V] #4630871
01/10/18 08:09 PM
01/10/18 08:09 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,459
out there
spasm3 Offline
spasm3  Offline
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,459
out there
Worn main bearings can also cause low oil pressure. 2-3 psi cold is really low.

Here is a part and basic diagram This is for a 2.0 , i'm looking for a 2.4


https://www.wholesalekiaparts.com/oem-pa...AiABEgIww_D_BwE


Last edited by spasm3; 01/10/18 08:16 PM.

13 elantra 72k 5w30 QSUD
03 chevy avalanche 80k synpwr 5w30
17 mazda cx-5 7300 miles m1 0w30
Re: Hyundai/Kia Theta II oil pump? [Re: Alex_V] #4630883
01/10/18 08:25 PM
01/10/18 08:25 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,459
out there
spasm3 Offline
spasm3  Offline
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,459
out there
I found this on ebay, but i can't cross reference the numbers to factory numbers.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-OEM-PUMP-ASSY-OIL-For-Tucson-10-13-Sportage-10-13-213102F301/152794984505?fits=Year%3A2011%7CMake%3AKia%7CModel%3ASportage&hash=item23934a7039:g:0gEAAOSwPDBaEXfT


13 elantra 72k 5w30 QSUD
03 chevy avalanche 80k synpwr 5w30
17 mazda cx-5 7300 miles m1 0w30
Re: Hyundai/Kia Theta II oil pump? [Re: Alex_V] #4630891
01/10/18 08:34 PM
01/10/18 08:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,277
Phoenix
dishdude Online content
dishdude  Online Content
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,277
Phoenix
Probably the main bearings, at 182k I'd quote a short block or used motor. Chances of it being the oil pump are near zero.


2018 Challenger SRT 392 PUP 0w-40 Wix 57899XP
2018 GTI
Re: Hyundai/Kia Theta II oil pump? [Re: Alex_V] #4630906
01/10/18 08:47 PM
01/10/18 08:47 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,198
Campbellsville, KY
Alex_V Offline OP
Alex_V  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,198
Campbellsville, KY
Hmmmm... duly noted. So it's possible the mains could be too loose to hold oil pressure but still not make any noise?

Thanks for the links, but neither of them are for the assembly this engine uses. This is what I'm trying to find a blowup or repair info for:
https://www.ebay.com/i/132194809781?chn=ps


To quote a friend, "Synthetics, man."

'85 GMC C3500, 454, 132K
'82 Mercedes 300CD, OM617 turbo, 173K (totaled 2018, in rehab)
'85 Mercedes 300TD, OM617 turbo, 217K (wife's)
'67 Suburban, 350, 331K
Re: Hyundai/Kia Theta II oil pump? [Re: Alex_V] #4630909
01/10/18 08:50 PM
01/10/18 08:50 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,459
out there
spasm3 Offline
spasm3  Offline
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,459
out there
Originally Posted By: Alex_V
Hmmmm... duly noted. So it's possible the mains could be too loose to hold oil pressure but still not make any noise?




Yes and very likely.

Last edited by spasm3; 01/10/18 08:52 PM.

13 elantra 72k 5w30 QSUD
03 chevy avalanche 80k synpwr 5w30
17 mazda cx-5 7300 miles m1 0w30
Re: Hyundai/Kia Theta II oil pump? [Re: Alex_V] #4630966
01/10/18 10:13 PM
01/10/18 10:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,473
Staten Island, NY
michaelluscher Offline
michaelluscher  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,473
Staten Island, NY
That 2.4 is covered in the fustercluck that is the Hyundai/Kia engine recall

I'd give it a fresh oil change, and limp it into the nearest Kia dealer to get on the waiting list for a new engine

Even though it's past the 15y/150k cut off, they've been good willing them left right and center for the sake of customer satisfaction


'06 Toyota Camry SE V6 3MZ-FE 100k
'01 Mercury Villager Estate VG33E 52k
'06 Ford Taurus SE Vulcan 60k
'13 Chrysler 300 3.6 Pentastar 230k
Re: Hyundai/Kia Theta II oil pump? [Re: michaelluscher] #4631287
01/11/18 10:28 AM
01/11/18 10:28 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,819
New York
pbm Offline
pbm  Offline
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,819
New York
Originally Posted By: michaelluscher
That 2.4 is covered in the fustercluck that is the Hyundai/Kia engine recall

I'd give it a fresh oil change, and limp it into the nearest Kia dealer to get on the waiting list for a new engine

Even though it's past the 15y/150k cut off, they've been good willing them left right and center for the sake of customer satisfaction



If Hyundai/Kia goodwilled an engine on a vehicle with 182K I'd be very impressed....I just don't see it happening.


'Journalism is Dead'
Re: Hyundai/Kia Theta II oil pump? [Re: Alex_V] #4631297
01/11/18 10:38 AM
01/11/18 10:38 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 742
Georgia
MParr Offline
MParr  Offline
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 742
Georgia
This particular vehicle may fall within the engine recall.
https://www.kia.com/us/en/content/owners/safety-recall
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2017/RMISC-17V224-9711.pdf
This vehicle may be well out of range of the recall. My suggestion is to put on an OE oil filter and drive the xxxx out of it until it blows. Then, put it on a rollback and haul it to the nearest dealership.


2013 KIA Optima EX 2.4L. Now: QSUD 5W30 & STP S2808ML
2017 Ford Escape SE 2.0T Now: Mobil 1 5W30 & NAPA Gold 1348
Re: Hyundai/Kia Theta II oil pump? [Re: pbm] #4631799
01/11/18 07:20 PM
01/11/18 07:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,473
Staten Island, NY
michaelluscher Offline
michaelluscher  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,473
Staten Island, NY
Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: michaelluscher
That 2.4 is covered in the fustercluck that is the Hyundai/Kia engine recall

I'd give it a fresh oil change, and limp it into the nearest Kia dealer to get on the waiting list for a new engine

Even though it's past the 15y/150k cut off, they've been good willing them left right and center for the sake of customer satisfaction



If Hyundai/Kia goodwilled an engine on a vehicle with 182K I'd be very impressed....I just don't see it happening.


Search around, I heard of them putting a long block in a 400k '11 Sonata, didn't even flinch

TBF, these engines pop like popcorn, they should learn from there mistakes


'06 Toyota Camry SE V6 3MZ-FE 100k
'01 Mercury Villager Estate VG33E 52k
'06 Ford Taurus SE Vulcan 60k
'13 Chrysler 300 3.6 Pentastar 230k
Re: Hyundai/Kia Theta II oil pump? [Re: Alex_V] #4631938
01/11/18 09:54 PM
01/11/18 09:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 325
Rockies
Scdevon Offline
Scdevon  Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 325
Rockies
Pretty sure this was one of the engines that they installed the rod bearings backwards in. Can't remember anything being said about the mains, but if it's anything to do with the bottom end on that engine at all, I'd run it by a dealer. There might be a new engine or at least a short block in your near future and I doubt they're going to quibble about mileage. This is a PR nightmare for them.

Last edited by Scdevon; 01/11/18 09:58 PM.

2003 Mustang Mach 1. 32V 4.6 Liter. Motorcraft Syn Blend 5W30
1970 Mustang Convertible 302-2V Auto (Stock) M/C 10W30
1970 VW Beetle 1600 DP
Re: Hyundai/Kia Theta II oil pump? [Re: Alex_V] #4631975
01/11/18 10:31 PM
01/11/18 10:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,198
Campbellsville, KY
Alex_V Offline OP
Alex_V  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,198
Campbellsville, KY
I put it back together today and advised the owner of the situation, and that he take it to a dealer to see about an engine. It's in generally good shape but the tranny is making a little noise - so IMHO anything more than a free engine relegates it to selling as-is. (Doesn't make sense to spend the money on a reman engine and leave the noisy transmission, but to buy/install both would cost more than it's worth.) With VML 10w40 in it the oil pressure jumped to about 12 on startup, but crept back down to 3-4 pounds. After running 4-5 minutes I observed pressure increase and it was pretty linear up to about 50 PSI at 3,000 RPM but the low pressure light still came on at idle.

If the dealer won't do anything for him I honestly think he should run it until it gets noisy then cut his losses - maybe 2 weeks, maybe 6 months?

Is having an OEM filter on it really going to make a diference at the dealer, vs. a Napa Gold?

Last edited by Alex_V; 01/11/18 10:33 PM.

To quote a friend, "Synthetics, man."

'85 GMC C3500, 454, 132K
'82 Mercedes 300CD, OM617 turbo, 173K (totaled 2018, in rehab)
'85 Mercedes 300TD, OM617 turbo, 217K (wife's)
'67 Suburban, 350, 331K
Re: Hyundai/Kia Theta II oil pump? [Re: Alex_V] #4631986
01/11/18 10:45 PM
01/11/18 10:45 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,283
WI
HoosierJeeper Offline
HoosierJeeper  Offline
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,283
WI
In my inexperienced opinion, an OEM filter is hope against hope. Napa Gold is about as good as it gets.

I think he should try for a new engine under warranty, and if that works, get it back and sell it. If he can't get a new engine now, sell it now while it drives normally. Unless he's deeply in love with it.


15 Jeep KL Limited V6: Formula Shell 5W20
07 LR3 SE V8: Maxlife 5W30
05 Jeep KJ Limited: PHM 5W30
96 Jeep XJ Country: STP HM 5W30 (winter)
Re: Hyundai/Kia Theta II oil pump? [Re: Alex_V] #4632106
01/12/18 05:12 AM
01/12/18 05:12 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 281
Atlanta, GA
pezzy669 Offline
pezzy669  Offline
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 281
Atlanta, GA
Did this affect the 1st gen 2.4 as well? Read about this the other day and thought to myself I have not seen an 5th gen '06-10 Sonata in quite some time so I have kept my eyes peeled on my daily 30 minute commute, I have seen exactly 1 5th gen Sonata over the past 3-4 days. Mind you I have probably seen 25-30 97-02 Camry's and way more '02-'XX Camry's than I can count over the same time frame.

10/100k warranty - seems like the cars are just thrown straight in the garbage, even after the Phoenix rising rebirth of Hyundai/Kia that started around '05. Looking at it how many of the 2 gens ago bubble ('07-10) Elantras do you see out in the wild, I can probably count on one hand how many I have seen in the last 3 months.

Mind you I get them all the time as rental cars and while they are nothing spectacular they seem well built and they perform adequately in rental duty (Sonata 2.4 HWY mileage is WAY overstated), never imagined them being junkyard ready at such low miles.


2011 Mercedes-Benz E350 4Matic - 78k miles
2009 Mercedes-Benz C300 Auto (Traded - 8/11/18 - 78k)
Re: Hyundai/Kia Theta II oil pump? [Re: Alex_V] #4632180
01/12/18 07:47 AM
01/12/18 07:47 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,198
Campbellsville, KY
Alex_V Offline OP
Alex_V  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,198
Campbellsville, KY
In good concience I can't advise him to sell it as a supposedly solid car (for a solid-car price) when the engine may come to a literal grinding hault at any time.

From the skimming I did online about these engines and their problems, it seems to me the problem wasn't just "mfg. process error" in not properly cleaning and finishing the rotating assembly - the nature of the failures (and that it seems it takes most of them quite a while to fail) would suggest it's a fundamental shortcoming in design or metallurgy. I've heard Kia dealer ads on the radio for years, raving about their incentives and "best trade-in offers" - to me that ads up to them being able to net less per car, which means less of something, somewhere in the vehicle. Design? Parts quality? Kia and Hyundai may get good reviews and be nice when new, but I've yet to come across information that changes my mind about what's really under their skin.


To quote a friend, "Synthetics, man."

'85 GMC C3500, 454, 132K
'82 Mercedes 300CD, OM617 turbo, 173K (totaled 2018, in rehab)
'85 Mercedes 300TD, OM617 turbo, 217K (wife's)
'67 Suburban, 350, 331K
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