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Why does most fuel have to be atomized to burn? #4628635
01/08/18 08:47 PM
01/08/18 08:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,941
Houston, Texas
motor_oil_madman Offline OP
motor_oil_madman  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,941
Houston, Texas
Is it because it creates more fumes?


2007.5 dodge cummins 6.7 liter. Chevron Delo400 15w40. 7000 mile or 250-300hr intervals.

Re: Why does most fuel have to be atomized to burn? [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4628638
01/08/18 08:52 PM
01/08/18 08:52 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,047
North Carolina
spasm3 Offline
spasm3  Offline
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,047
North Carolina
To get more surface area of the fuel exposed to oxygen.


13 elantra 70k 5w30 QSUD
03 chevy avalanche79k synpwr 10w30
01 saturnsc1 185k synpwr rebuilt
17 mazda cx-5 5600 miles m1 0w30
Re: Why does most fuel have to be atomized to burn? [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4628659
01/08/18 09:05 PM
01/08/18 09:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,183
Fort Worth, Texas
clinebarger Offline
clinebarger  Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,183
Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
Is it because it creates more fumes?


Liquid Gasoline is NOT flammable....LOL.


2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/Auto
Re: Why does most fuel have to be atomized to burn? [Re: clinebarger] #4628663
01/08/18 09:10 PM
01/08/18 09:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 17,348
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Chris142 Online content
Chris142  Online Content
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 17,348
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Originally Posted By: clinebarger
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
Is it because it creates more fumes?


Liquid Gasoline is NOT flammable....LOL.
we were taught this in hiskool autoshop!

Last edited by Chris142; 01/08/18 09:10 PM.

02 Wrangler durablend 10w40
87 F250 traveler 15w40
04 Tahoe super-s 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am maveric edge 5w40
57 case tractor 15w40
Re: Why does most fuel have to be atomized to burn? [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4628693
01/08/18 09:28 PM
01/08/18 09:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,523
USA
mk378 Online content
mk378  Online Content
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,523
USA
Chemical reactions such as combustion must happen molecule by molecule. A gas has the molecules already separated for quick reaction. When a quantity of liquid gasoline is on fire, it is actually the layer of vaporized gas rising from the surface burning, not the bulk liquid itself.

Re: Why does most fuel have to be atomized to burn? [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4628720
01/08/18 09:58 PM
01/08/18 09:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,318
SE British Columbia, Canada
Snagglefoot Online content
Snagglefoot  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,318
SE British Columbia, Canada
Add to this the short time available to ignite the fuel. At 3000 RPM the spark plug if firing 1500 times per minute which is 25 times per second.

SF


If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: Why does most fuel have to be atomized to burn? [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4628749
01/08/18 10:25 PM
01/08/18 10:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,860
'Stralia
Shannow Online content
Shannow  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,860
'Stralia
Surface of the fuel has to evaporate and reach an air/fuel mixture suitable for combustion. smaller drop sizes, more surface to volume ratio, the more homogenous the charge is. Less large particles to impinge on walls and dilute oil as well.

Diesels work similarly, that's what the "knock" is, when enough diesel has evaporated to ignite with a bang. Too big a droplet, and it turns to soot.

Coal does the same thing. Ground to a powder, the volatiles boil off and commence combustion. The air can then get into the coal particle, and start the "char burnout" phase, leaving molten ash particles behind (some of which form tiny hollow bubbles that end up in cosmetics, packaging, and toothpaste).

Re: Why does most fuel have to be atomized to burn? [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4628770
01/08/18 10:56 PM
01/08/18 10:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,747
New Zealand
Silk Offline
Silk  Offline
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,747
New Zealand
The fuel needs to atomise, then to vapourise. In a carburettored engine, it was atomised leaving the discharge tube, and then vapourised in the manifold by lower pressure and heat. fuel injection moves the fuel closer to the valve, but is atomised better by the injector...it still needs the vapourisation stage to be combustable.


1987 BMW R65 - Penrite V Twin 20/50
2005 Nissan Expert - Gulf Western 10W-40
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.
Re: Why does most fuel have to be atomized to burn? [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4628817
01/09/18 12:19 AM
01/09/18 12:19 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,838
Central Texas
sleddriver Offline
sleddriver  Offline
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,838
Central Texas
???????
fumes???

Look up fuel/air ratio....and chemistry of combustion.


1998 Volvo V70 T5 228,880 mi. Original Owner.
M1 10W-30 HM
"It's never a mistake to buy tools, defined broadly. They're not a cost, they're an investment." - J.B. Peterson
Re: Why does most fuel have to be atomized to burn? [Re: spasm3] #4628870
01/09/18 04:26 AM
01/09/18 04:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,203
Southeastern, PA
Rick in PA Offline
Rick in PA  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,203
Southeastern, PA
Originally Posted By: spasm3
To get more surface area of the fuel exposed to oxygen.


Surface area is basically it. The ability of a fuel to absorb heat, leading to combustion, depends on the surface area to volume ratio. Something small has a lot of surface area for it's volume (or weight). It heats up quickly, reaching combustion temperature.

This is the main factor in dust explosions. A flour mill, or sugar plant explosion, depends on a lot of dust being suspended in the air. A flame starts somewhere and it propagates quickly through the cloud of dust, because each particle of dust virtually instantaneously absorbs the heat and rises to combustion temperature.

In the case of liquid fuels, once atomized, much vaporizes. You can't get a smaller particle than a vaporized molecule of fuel. It's all ready to absorb heat and combust. The small droplets that remain, rapidly absorb heat (due to their high surface area to volume ratio), vaporize and combust with an explosion-like quality.

At least that's my take on it.



A wise man told me:
"Heat is your friend." and "Any oil is better than no oil."
Re: Why does most fuel have to be atomized to burn? [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4628912
01/09/18 07:17 AM
01/09/18 07:17 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,787
New England
madRiver Online content
madRiver  Online Content
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,787
New England
This is why it is really safe to have 250 gallons of home heating fuel sitting in Your basement.

Re: Why does most fuel have to be atomized to burn? [Re: madRiver] #4629033
01/09/18 10:17 AM
01/09/18 10:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,842
Texas
WyrTwister Offline
WyrTwister  Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,842
Texas
Originally Posted By: madRiver
This is why it is really safe to have 250 gallons of home heating fuel sitting in Your basement.


If home heating oil is like diesel , it is not anywhere as easily ignited as gasoline .

A fuel like natural gas is already a gas and all it needs to do is mix with air / oxygen . Almost the same with propane / butane .

As has been said , gasoline must be atomized and hopefully vaporized .


Wyr
God bless
Re: Why does most fuel have to be atomized to burn? [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4629114
01/09/18 11:41 AM
01/09/18 11:41 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,093
Saskatchewan, Canada
Johnny2Bad Offline
Johnny2Bad  Offline
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,093
Saskatchewan, Canada
It's the Oxygen that burns, the fuel is just a catalyst to that process. Gasoline is actually classified as a "reluctant combustor" which doesn't mean it's safe to throw around but does mean it requires a very specific range of mixture with air to burn; if that ratio is too high or too low, it just wets the chamber, basically.

So both air and fuel need to be well mixed for proper complete combustion.


'57 FL Straight 50 wt
'90 Miata 1.8L w/Rotrex Supercharger [Mobil1 0W-40]
'96 Ram 1500 [3.7L Mobil1 0W-20 / 1L 15W-50]
'01 PT Cruiser [Mobil1 0W-40]
Re: Why does most fuel have to be atomized to burn? [Re: Johnny2Bad] #4629118
01/09/18 11:44 AM
01/09/18 11:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,891
Upper Midwest
kschachn Offline
kschachn  Offline
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,891
Upper Midwest
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
It's the Oxygen that burns, the fuel is just a catalyst to that process. Gasoline is actually classified as a "reluctant combustor" which doesn't mean it's safe to throw around but does mean it requires a very specific range of mixture with air to burn; if that ratio is too high or too low, it just wets the chamber, basically.

What? Where did you learn your chemistry? Oxidizers don't oxidize, the fuel does. Oxygen will not burn unless it is being oxidized by fluorine.

You must have slept through high school chemistry is all I can guess.


1994 BMW 530i, 228K
1996 Honda Accord, 263K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 400K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 271K
Re: Why does most fuel have to be atomized to burn? [Re: WyrTwister] #4629129
01/09/18 11:52 AM
01/09/18 11:52 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,093
Saskatchewan, Canada
Johnny2Bad Offline
Johnny2Bad  Offline
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,093
Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: WyrTwister
Originally Posted By: madRiver
This is why it is really safe to have 250 gallons of home heating fuel sitting in Your basement.


If home heating oil is like diesel , it is not anywhere as easily ignited as gasoline .

A fuel like natural gas is already a gas and all it needs to do is mix with air / oxygen . Almost the same with propane / butane .

As has been said , gasoline must be atomized and hopefully vaporized .





No quibble with your facts, just an addition:

Natural Gas is safer than Propane because it is lighter than air; it dissipates rapidly and completely into the atmosphere and can reach a non-cumbustive ratio quite quickly. If there is a continuous source of gas, then you have a problem, because there will be a variety of mixture ratios available, only one has to light to create combustion, but if the source of the leak is stopped quickly, or the escaping gas is small volume (like with a Natural Gas stove) not a problem, really (you need a pretty continuous leak in an enclosed area to create an explosion risk with NG).

With Propane, which is heavier than air, it tends to pool at the lower level of an enclosed or open space; think of an low lying fog of explosive gas around your feet and legs. This layer of combustible material will mix with air above it, there will always be a combustible ratio available.

For a real-world example, think of a propane bar-b-q that lights up explosively if you are having problems lighting the thing but eventually introduce a working spark. With a natural gas bar-b-q or stove, the gas being on isn't going to cause that kind of reaction, the thing just lights when the working spark is introduced. Naturally there is always a danger when dealing with any explosive gas and enclosed spaces, but outdoors the risk or a reaction like the propane bar-b-q is near zero; the lid being open insures rapid dilution of the gas (versus it hanging around in the bottom of the grill with propane).

Butane, MAP Gas, etc are similar to Natural Gas in that respect. It's also why some Parkades ban Propane powered vehicles.


'57 FL Straight 50 wt
'90 Miata 1.8L w/Rotrex Supercharger [Mobil1 0W-40]
'96 Ram 1500 [3.7L Mobil1 0W-20 / 1L 15W-50]
'01 PT Cruiser [Mobil1 0W-40]
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