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Redline updated SDS 90% PAO #4538460
10/09/17 08:04 PM
10/09/17 08:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 441
Stewartstown PA
spiderbypass Offline OP
spiderbypass  Offline OP

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 441
Stewartstown PA
I know SDS do not show everything in oil composition; but it seems like Redline motor oils are made up primarily pao Basestocks.
https://w3apps.phillips66.com/NetMSDS/ViewPDF.aspx?fileName=828863&Language=EN&IssueDate=9%2f19%2f2017&SubFormat=USDS


Insecurity with overcompensation are the root of evil deeds.
Re: Redline updated SDS 90% PAO [Re: spiderbypass] #4538461
10/09/17 08:06 PM
10/09/17 08:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 39,103
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 39,103
Ontario, Canada
Yup, definitely some MAJOR PAO content going on there.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Castrol Edge 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Redline updated SDS 90% PAO [Re: spiderbypass] #4538464
10/09/17 08:10 PM
10/09/17 08:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 24,087
ON, Canada eh?
StevieC Offline
StevieC  Offline

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 24,087
ON, Canada eh?
I was using Redline in the Journey when it was first new because I was using up some in my stash before going back to Amsoil and I wasn't getting good UOA's from it in that engine. I thought it was mainly POE. Guess it's not. shrug Whatever the formula it is it didn't agree with the conditions my engine gave it. Besides the cost went up compared to Amsoil for me so that was an automatic cross off the list. Well that and I can only get the narrow ended bottles and not the gallon size which is a pain for dumping waste oil back in the containers.

Last edited by StevieC; 10/09/17 08:11 PM.

'18 Dodge Grand Caravan GT - 25k KM - AMSOIL SS 0w20

Fear 20wt oils if you want your engine to last. smirk2
Re: Redline updated SDS 90% PAO [Re: spiderbypass] #4538468
10/09/17 08:15 PM
10/09/17 08:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,429
Dallas,Tx USA
aquariuscsm Online content
aquariuscsm  Online Content

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,429
Dallas,Tx USA
I,too thought it was an ester based oil. Redline didn't pull an "RP" when they got bought out and cheapen their formula did they? Seems every time an indie company goes corporate the formula gets cheapened out (I'm referring to all products,not just oil).


1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
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Re: Redline updated SDS 90% PAO [Re: aquariuscsm] #4538474
10/09/17 08:23 PM
10/09/17 08:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,842
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,842
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
I can't speak to many years ago, but I had thought that it was a primarily PAO base, with significant enough ester content to market it with respect to that aspect.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, Wix 57356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Redline updated SDS 90% PAO [Re: Garak] #4538477
10/09/17 08:25 PM
10/09/17 08:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 39,103
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 39,103
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Garak
I can't speak to many years ago, but I had thought that it was a primarily PAO base, with significant enough ester content to market it with respect to that aspect.


That was my impression as well.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Castrol Edge 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Redline updated SDS 90% PAO [Re: spiderbypass] #4538492
10/09/17 08:38 PM
10/09/17 08:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,547
PA
d00df00d Online content
d00df00d  Online Content

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,547
PA
Isn't it... not possible/desirable to make an engine oil primarily with esters? AFAIK an oil like that would be terrible when cold, need very short OCIs, etc.

Rumors and speculation that Red Line was primarily PAO are years old. I never knew (nor would I have imagined) it'd be 90%, but I'm not hugely surprised.

Something to remember: even if the ester content is 10% or less, that doesn't mean esters aren't the party piece in the formulation. Elemental additives account for MUCH less of the formulation than that, and they're pretty important!


2008 BMW M3 Sedan 6MT
Re: Redline updated SDS 90% PAO [Re: d00df00d] #4538519
10/09/17 09:06 PM
10/09/17 09:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,624
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
Global Moderator
JHZR2  Offline
Global Moderator

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,624
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Isn't it... not possible/desirable to make an engine oil primarily with esters? AFAIK an oil like that would be terrible when cold, need very short OCIs, etc.

Rumors and speculation that Red Line was primarily PAO are years old. I never knew (nor would I have imagined) it'd be 90%, but I'm not hugely surprised.

Something to remember: even if the ester content is 10% or less, that doesn't mean esters aren't the party piece in the formulation. Elemental additives account for MUCH less of the formulation than that, and they're pretty important!


+1 to all of this.

Re: Redline updated SDS 90% PAO [Re: spiderbypass] #4538529
10/09/17 09:23 PM
10/09/17 09:23 PM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 10
USA
NickT29 Offline
NickT29  Offline

Joined: May 2017
Posts: 10
USA
The link isn't working for me, but I just want to point out that the percentages reflected on Safety Data Sheets are usually not reflective of exact amounts mixed into the finished product. Oil companies claim that their formulations are trade secrets, and according to OSHA the percentages just have to be ranges.

"The concentration (exact percentages) of each ingredient must be specified except concentration ranges may be used in the following situations:
A trade secret claim is made,
There is batch-to-batch variation, or
The SDS is used for a group of substantially similar mixtures.
Chemicals where a trade secret is claimed"

https://www.osha.gov/Publications/OSHA3514.html

Re: Redline updated SDS 90% PAO [Re: NickT29] #4538562
10/09/17 10:12 PM
10/09/17 10:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,745
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
Global Moderator
MolaKule  Offline
Global Moderator

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,745
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: NickT29
The link isn't working for me, but I just want to point out that the percentages reflected on Safety Data Sheets are usually not reflective of exact amounts mixed into the finished product. Oil companies claim that their formulations are trade secrets, and according to OSHA the percentages just have to be ranges.

"The concentration (exact percentages) of each ingredient must be specified except concentration ranges may be used in the following situations:
A trade secret claim is made,
There is batch-to-batch variation, or
The SDS is used for a group of substantially similar mixtures.
Chemicals where a trade secret is claimed"

https://www.osha.gov/Publications/OSHA3514.html



Exactly.

Also notice what else is missing in the MSDS:

Redline uses anywhere from 120 ppm to 600 of moly (MoDTC) in their formulations but no mention is made of MoDTC's.


"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination." Jimmy Dean
Re: Redline updated SDS 90% PAO [Re: MolaKule] #4538587
10/09/17 11:02 PM
10/09/17 11:02 PM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 10
USA
NickT29 Offline
NickT29  Offline

Joined: May 2017
Posts: 10
USA
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: NickT29
The link isn't working for me, but I just want to point out that the percentages reflected on Safety Data Sheets are usually not reflective of exact amounts mixed into the finished product. Oil companies claim that their formulations are trade secrets, and according to OSHA the percentages just have to be ranges.

"The concentration (exact percentages) of each ingredient must be specified except concentration ranges may be used in the following situations:
A trade secret claim is made,
There is batch-to-batch variation, or
The SDS is used for a group of substantially similar mixtures.
Chemicals where a trade secret is claimed"

https://www.osha.gov/Publications/OSHA3514.html



Exactly.

Also notice what else is missing in the MSDS:

Redline uses anywhere from 120 ppm to 600 of moly (MoDTC) in their formulations but no mention is made of MoDTC's.


In that case, I’m unsure if Moly needs to be listed at all. As I assume it isn’t enough of a hazard to human health considering the total amount in a given volume of oil to be required to be on SDS sheets. However, when taking a look at another product like Mobil 1 High Mileage, you’ll see two items listed, PAO, and a type of zinc that is listed as a low percentage number but must be toxic enough in a given volume to need to be listed.

Re: Redline updated SDS 90% PAO [Re: spiderbypass] #4538592
10/09/17 11:14 PM
10/09/17 11:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 8,155
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 8,155
...
I don't think I've seen a MSDS or SDS that listed the additives. Calciums, phosphorus, moly, boron etc. It probably goes back to the proprietary formula the company does not wish to reveal.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: Redline updated SDS 90% PAO [Re: spiderbypass] #4538598
10/09/17 11:20 PM
10/09/17 11:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 395
Western usa
Ammofirst Offline
Ammofirst  Offline

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 395
Western usa
This is all news to me. I always thought Redlines claim to fame was its status as a class V oil. Which in turn I thought meant a "primarily" ester based oil. I Also got the impression it was generally held in higher regard than amsoil when used in racing / high performance / high rpm / high heat applications. Who acquired them ? I can't remember. Did the formulation change post acquisition?

Re: Redline updated SDS 90% PAO [Re: spiderbypass] #4538612
10/09/17 11:32 PM
10/09/17 11:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,900
Buffalo, NY
Nickdfresh Offline
Nickdfresh  Offline

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,900
Buffalo, NY
This is nothing new, it's been stated here that Redline's main line of oils is and always has been PAO for like a decade. The POE is reserved for their ultra-expensive racing oils, but we have some shill fanbois that will argue even this...

Re: Redline updated SDS 90% PAO [Re: Nickdfresh] #4538792
10/10/17 07:39 AM
10/10/17 07:39 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 47,300
Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Pablo Offline
Pablo  Offline

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 47,300
Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
This is nothing new, it's been stated here that Redline's main line of oils is and always has been PAO for like a decade. The POE is reserved for their ultra-expensive racing oils, but we have some shill fanbois that will argue even this...


This. I have, through the years, posted Redline is 50-90% PAO and people accused me of lying, making it up, hyping Amsoil (ok yes), or just being generally nuts (true). Some of the posts in this thread also make the point. Not really feasible and what $20-30 qt?

Lastly, so what? Use good oil. Don't stress about the component parts.


DIRECT JOBBER - PABLO - for all your Amsoil needs
http://oilslubesandfilters.shopamsoil.com/


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