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Can someone explain how oil protects against LSPI? #4533724
10/04/17 11:30 AM
10/04/17 11:30 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,942
Michigan
ZZman Offline OP
ZZman  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,942
Michigan
Wouldn't it be the proper computer/timing that would do the protecting or stopping of it?


2003 Mercury Grand Marquis. Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle oil
2008 Sebring Hardtop convertible. Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle oil
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 LT. Amsoil Metric 10w-40
Re: Can someone explain how oil protects against LSPI? [Re: ZZman] #4533732
10/04/17 11:35 AM
10/04/17 11:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,942
Michigan
ZZman Offline OP
ZZman  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,942
Michigan


2003 Mercury Grand Marquis. Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle oil
2008 Sebring Hardtop convertible. Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle oil
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 LT. Amsoil Metric 10w-40
Re: Can someone explain how oil protects against LSPI? [Re: ZZman] #4533754
10/04/17 11:56 AM
10/04/17 11:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,225
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
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Posts: 4,225
New England
I don't know that the exact mechanism is completely understood even now, but the chemical composition of oil can strongly affect uncontrolled ignition of the air/fuel charge through oil droplets and/or tiny solid particles from oil combustion in the cylinder. Since it is Low Speed Pre Ignition and tends to occur in high torque conditions, I can only assume that relatively low RPMs during periods of high stress on the engine basically give the unwanted ignition more time to occur in any given combustion cycle...and these DIT engines are generally pretty good at producing a lot of torque at low RPMs.

I know, the whole thing seems weird...I doubt very much that anybody working on early mass market DI systems even remotely saw this coming.


2014 Forester XT, 86000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Can someone explain how oil protects against LSPI? [Re: ZZman] #4533757
10/04/17 11:59 AM
10/04/17 11:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,355
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
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Posts: 25,355
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Is it really protecting against it, or minimising what is causing it? I gather there would be no LSPI if there were no deposits whatsoever in the first place.

Last edited by Garak; 10/04/17 11:59 AM.

Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Can someone explain how oil protects against LSPI? [Re: ZZman] #4533760
10/04/17 12:02 PM
10/04/17 12:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
bigj_16 Offline
bigj_16  Offline
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Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Wouldn't it be the proper computer/timing that would do the protecting or stopping of it?

Oil doesn't protect against LSPI. The oil and/or some components of the oil are possibly contributing to LSPI. They are trying to either get rid of or mitigate the components that do possibly contribute. In early testing, it looks like higher levels (1500 or above) of calcium MAY be a possible contributor. So, the manufacturer either lowers the calcium, or raises ,say, magnesium, moly, or ZDP, or some combination thereof, to mitigate this. This is all early on, so nothing is set in stone.

Re: Can someone explain how oil protects against LSPI? [Re: Garak] #4533763
10/04/17 12:05 PM
10/04/17 12:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,225
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
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New England
Originally Posted By: Garak
Is it really protecting against it, or minimising what is causing it? I gather there would be no LSPI if there were no deposits whatsoever in the first place.


My understanding is that there is no LSPI if there is no oil present in the chamber, but I can't prove that and I'd think it would be very hard to test without quickly seizing an engine. That would say that proper oil composition is minimizing the problem since oil is the cause of the problem.


2014 Forester XT, 86000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Can someone explain how oil protects against LSPI? [Re: Virtus_Probi] #4533851
10/04/17 01:18 PM
10/04/17 01:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,355
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,355
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Yes, if the oil wasn't there in the first place, it shouldn't be an issue. But, yes, running an engine with no oil wouldn't be terribly practical. wink


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Can someone explain how oil protects against LSPI? [Re: ZZman] #4533871
10/04/17 01:29 PM
10/04/17 01:29 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,180
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline
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Posts: 12,180
N.H, U.S.A.
Ok. Run Krytox pfpe in the experiment.

Ill go ahead and blame the high static compression AND low octane fuel. They hoped a stratified charge would allow good ignitability ( a late puff of fuel rich mist near the sparker) but the lean boundary charge may be prone to pre-ig due to burn carryover from exh cycle in the ring land area - now rings are closer to the crowm.

All speculation on my part here, but drawn from building hi comp engines in the late 70's


2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#9 41392mi-QSUD10W30 + M110A CHAMP Filter; 2017 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#2 ?? mi-SOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter
Re: Can someone explain how oil protects against LSPI? [Re: ZZman] #4533919
10/04/17 02:21 PM
10/04/17 02:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,816
Idaho
CT8 Online content
CT8  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,816
Idaho
There seems to actually be no concrete answers. Additives, Base oils engine components who knows.


"Don't let your preconceived notions get in the way of facts."
Geoff Metcalf
Re: Can someone explain how oil protects against LSPI? [Re: ZZman] #4533958
10/04/17 03:06 PM
10/04/17 03:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,035
Tn.
CourierDriver Offline
CourierDriver  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,035
Tn.
Now I have PTSD OVER LSPI, now what? There will be 1000s in here losing sleep not to mention millions of googling over it....lol Did we ever solve PS "piston slap"?


About 610,000 people die of heart disease in the USA every year/that's 1 in every 4 deaths. Thats 1,670 a day,,did someone say guns are dangerous..right...
Re: Can someone explain how oil protects against LSPI? [Re: ZZman] #4533969
10/04/17 03:26 PM
10/04/17 03:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,942
Michigan
ZZman Offline OP
ZZman  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,942
Michigan
I guess to be safe run premium.


2003 Mercury Grand Marquis. Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle oil
2008 Sebring Hardtop convertible. Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle oil
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 LT. Amsoil Metric 10w-40
Re: Can someone explain how oil protects against LSPI? [Re: ARCOgraphite] #4534004
10/04/17 04:10 PM
10/04/17 04:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,002
Michigan
A_Harman Offline
A_Harman  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,002
Michigan
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Ok. Run Krytox pfpe in the experiment.

Ill go ahead and blame the high static compression AND low octane fuel. They hoped a stratified charge would allow good ignitability ( a late puff of fuel rich mist near the sparker) but the lean boundary charge may be prone to pre-ig due to burn carryover from exh cycle in the ring land area - now rings are closer to the crowm.

All speculation on my part here, but drawn from building hi comp engines in the late 70's


Strange that you should mention Krytox grease. When I was running oil consumption tests at Cummins back in the mid-90's, one technique that we used was to shut off all the oil going to the cylinder head of the test engine, to see how much oil was being lost through the ring pack alone. When we shut off the oil, we packed the rocker arm pivots, valve tips, and pushrod cups with Krytox grease, then ran the engine at idle for 100 hours to get a stable oil consumption reading. The natural gas C-series engine I was testing was shown to be using about half of its oil through the multi-lip valve stem seals. Switching to single-lip seals cured that problem.


1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck
Re: Can someone explain how oil protects against LSPI? [Re: CourierDriver] #4534057
10/04/17 05:25 PM
10/04/17 05:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,225
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,225
New England
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
Now I have PTSD OVER LSPI, now what? There will be 1000s in here losing sleep not to mention millions of googling over it....lol Did we ever solve PS "piston slap"?


STBY!!!
;^)


2014 Forester XT, 86000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Can someone explain how oil protects against LSPI? [Re: CT8] #4534382
10/05/17 08:24 AM
10/05/17 08:24 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,256
Malaysia
zeng Offline
zeng  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,256
Malaysia
Originally Posted By: CT8
There seems to actually be no concrete answers. Additives, Base oils engine components who knows.

+1
........ and a low viscosity xW20 grade oil is contributing to LSPI phenomenon too ?

https://www.oronite.com/products/lspi.asp

Edit:upload

Last edited by zeng; 10/05/17 08:27 AM.
Re: Can someone explain how oil protects against LSPI? [Re: ZZman] #4543285
10/14/17 02:44 PM
10/14/17 02:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 954
North Carolina
4ever4d Offline
4ever4d  Offline
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 954
North Carolina
According to Lake Speed Jr. at Driven Racing oils in cooperation with the Oak Ridge National Labratory, sodium in mixing with moisture from the combustion process is the cause. Investigating Oil Composition and Low Speed Knock

Last edited by 4ever4d; 10/14/17 02:52 PM.

04 Chevy Colorado 3.5 I5 5w-30 OEF
07 Honda Element 2.4 I4 5w-20 OEM
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