Recent Topics
New Fram air filter?
by irv. 09/20/18 09:15 AM
Any golf cart experts?
by HawkeyeScott. 09/20/18 09:15 AM
EU Subaru 2.5 FB engine oil
by IMPALA08. 09/20/18 08:16 AM
02 Focus head replacement
by Eric Smith. 09/20/18 08:08 AM
A5/B5 or A3/B3
by ka9mnx. 09/20/18 07:53 AM
2018 Mazda 3 2.5 Castrol or Mazda Moly
by mazdamonky. 09/20/18 07:44 AM
What fuel are you running?
by Matagonka. 09/20/18 07:25 AM
Be careful what you wish for...
by Shannow. 09/20/18 04:40 AM
Debating repowering my tower.
by Colt45ws. 09/20/18 01:10 AM
Oil filter for GM 8.1l V8?
by KenO. 09/19/18 11:10 PM
Help! No high beam
by wolf_06. 09/19/18 11:02 PM
Heading for divorce
by barkingspider. 09/19/18 11:02 PM
Oil recommendation: 1991 Nissan D21 truck
by RDY4WAR. 09/19/18 10:04 PM
Cold starting and CCS etc.
by CT8. 09/19/18 10:03 PM
Whine->Dead car(electrical)
by madRiver. 09/19/18 09:59 PM
Differential Allen Drain Bolt Buggered
by Gebo. 09/19/18 09:41 PM
Pick my oil. 25k miles a year
by Serge. 09/19/18 09:41 PM
Ok to use in Kubota? Pennsoil 0w-40
by racinjason. 09/19/18 09:35 PM
Road Hugger GTP A/S Tires
by Bud_One. 09/19/18 09:16 PM
Gravity Bleeding Clutch?hel
by Spetz. 09/19/18 09:10 PM
Newest Members
FarmerDude, Bman90, Alday714, Joephoto, tlelectric
66021 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
81 registered members (94astro, Ag76, Ablebody, ABomb369, 10 invisible), 1,538 guests, and 43 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics290,706
Posts4,848,658
Members66,021
Most Online3,590
Jan 24th, 2017
Donate to BITOG
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
Castrol Syn 0w20, 5434mi OCI, 20196mi 2017 Mazda 6 #4529840
09/29/17 09:11 PM
09/29/17 09:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 789
Lynchburg, VA, USA
SF0059 Offline OP
SF0059  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 789
Lynchburg, VA, USA
Castrol Syntec Black Bottle. 150ml of Ceratec (let the additive bashing begin!).

Replaced with M1 AFE. I'll probably stick with that as long as I can find it cheap.



2014 Honda Odyssey EX-L/RES: 54K mi, M1 0w-40 & FU, VCMuzzler V2
2017 Mazda 6 Touring 6MT: 22k mi, M1 AFE 0w20, OEM Filter
Re: Castrol Syn 0w20, 5434mi OCI, 20196mi 2017 Mazda 6 [Re: SF0059] #4529848
09/29/17 09:24 PM
09/29/17 09:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,396
Soviet State of Washington
PimTac Online content
PimTac  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,396
Soviet State of Washington
Looks very good. That AFE is a great oil that should serve you well.


2017 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring

Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Mobil 1 M108A EP filter

Re: Castrol Syn 0w20, 5434mi OCI, 20196mi 2017 Mazda 6 [Re: SF0059] #4529864
09/29/17 09:47 PM
09/29/17 09:47 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 841
KS
FordBroncoVWJeta Offline
FordBroncoVWJeta  Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 841
KS
I think additives are great for older cars. But why are you using it in a 2017? VW says warranty will be voided with the use of a additive. I also think Honda says the same thing. I would make sure Mazda wont trash your warranty using it.


17 Volkswagen Jetta 1.4T
15 Honda CRV 2.4
12 Volkswagen Jetta 2.0
01 Pontiac Sunfire 2.2
Re: Castrol Syn 0w20, 5434mi OCI, 20196mi 2017 Mazda 6 [Re: SF0059] #4529906
09/29/17 10:40 PM
09/29/17 10:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,620
Dallas,Tx USA
aquariuscsm Offline
aquariuscsm  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,620
Dallas,Tx USA
Excellent uoa! Makes me want to run a fill of 0W20 Edge in my Honda!


1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10W30
2012 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L 2.4,auto,San Marino Red
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 5W20

Re: Castrol Syn 0w20, 5434mi OCI, 20196mi 2017 Mazda 6 [Re: SF0059] #4529910
09/29/17 10:44 PM
09/29/17 10:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 226
Chicago
danielLD Offline
danielLD  Offline
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 226
Chicago
This UOA is not good, that UOA is concerning.

1. Viscosity is too low and it is diluted, likely from fuel.

2. Flashpoint is too low, needs to be higher, another fuel dilution issue.

3. Your insolubles in a brand new engine are too high. 0.1 tops in a new engine, this is from EGRed residuals and deposits, as well as fuel dilution.

4. Control the issue, improve power & fuel economy.

Re: Castrol Syn 0w20, 5434mi OCI, 20196mi 2017 Mazda 6 [Re: SF0059] #4529922
09/29/17 11:13 PM
09/29/17 11:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 789
Lynchburg, VA, USA
SF0059 Offline OP
SF0059  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 789
Lynchburg, VA, USA
Thanks for the feedback, all. I am personally happy with this UOA as well as the last one. Let's answer a few questions!

Additive in a new car: Mazda's OEM oil has a metric ton of molybdenum in it. So, if anything I am getting closer to the OEM spec. I am also using this as an experiment to see how quickly wear can stabilize in a new engine. I may have started too late, because the metals in both UOAs look stellar. I can't scientifically support that Ceratec had anything to do with that, but that engine is wearing very well regardless.

Warranty: I'm not concerned with warranty issues. There is no way they could determine that Ceratec was used. If they could prove it... well, they deserve a gold star. Honestly, if warranty comes up I could just dump the oil, refill and take it in.

Viscocity, flashpoint, dilution and insoluables: The viscosity is on the lower side, but not drastically out of spec. Flashpoint is lowish and this may very well be due to fuel. I can't know that until I start getting my UOAs through Polaris, so we will see. I'm not concerned with the insoluble level. It is still fairly low. Until I see a trend, this could even be attributed to a contaminated sample. I'll just keep on testing to determine trends.

In any case, the vehicle is highway driven about 85% of the time. Oil level doesn't change at all during service. It could be possible I am seeing some minor fuel dilution, but for now it is not having a negative impact on wear. I'll keep up the testing until I have enough data to determine trends.

Overall, I'm thrilled with these two early samples.


2014 Honda Odyssey EX-L/RES: 54K mi, M1 0w-40 & FU, VCMuzzler V2
2017 Mazda 6 Touring 6MT: 22k mi, M1 AFE 0w20, OEM Filter
Re: Castrol Syn 0w20, 5434mi OCI, 20196mi 2017 Mazda 6 [Re: SF0059] #4529925
09/29/17 11:19 PM
09/29/17 11:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,620
Dallas,Tx USA
aquariuscsm Offline
aquariuscsm  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,620
Dallas,Tx USA
Super low to almost no wear metals. Looks great imo! thumbsup


1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10W30
2012 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L 2.4,auto,San Marino Red
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 5W20

Re: Castrol Syn 0w20, 5434mi OCI, 20196mi 2017 Mazda 6 [Re: SF0059] #4529937
09/29/17 11:56 PM
09/29/17 11:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 226
Chicago
danielLD Offline
danielLD  Offline
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 226
Chicago
Ah yes everything looks great and shiny!! But alas this UOA for you may look good from far, but it is far from good!!

The fact is trending is useless for automotive tribology. In my time with Tribologik, I argued every day how trending is the key to nothing. Here is the problem, you're trending continues right, so we then use those trends as a "safety baseline" but what happens when the safety baseline wasn't safe to begin with? If you need to trend in this industry, you're not an analyst. Trending is ok on a locomotive engine or a turbine, not on a vehicle with irregular conditions on the daily.

1. viscosity, it is very low, especially at 5,000 miles your ethanol usage and your highway miles.

2. you have fuels dilution, flash point is not "lowish". It is low, address it or why even do UOA.

3. you're insolubles is not from contamination, this is from EGRed deposits and FD.

4. You can dismiss every notion I have mentioned to feel good about the test, but at a minimum consider reevaluating how easy you dismiss everything.

Tests to get done at Polaris. I know they use a PE gas chromatograph as I've spoked with Brett Minges on the accuracy of PE vs. some other brands.(surprised no one ever debates machinery for tests on here)

1. Fuel by GC 2. Water by KF.
I strongly suggest the acid number as well if you can afford it.

Re: Castrol Syn 0w20, 5434mi OCI, 20196mi 2017 Mazda 6 [Re: SF0059] #4529952
09/30/17 12:20 AM
09/30/17 12:20 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,396
Soviet State of Washington
PimTac Online content
PimTac  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,396
Soviet State of Washington
Running Ceratec in these new engines might be borderline experimenting. Mazda has incorporated a lot of anti friction methods into these SkyActiv engines including coatings, superfine polishing and new designs on certain parts. For 2017 for example the piston rings are completely new. New design and shape. How will Ceratec work with or react against these new technologies? If a part is already DLC coated does the Ceratec hinder the effectiveness of that coating? There are lots of questions here. I would stop using the Ceratec. Castrol is a great oil in its own right.


2017 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring

Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Mobil 1 M108A EP filter

Re: Castrol Syn 0w20, 5434mi OCI, 20196mi 2017 Mazda 6 [Re: aquariuscsm] #4529985
09/30/17 05:29 AM
09/30/17 05:29 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,209
Wet side WA
JohnnyJohnson Offline
JohnnyJohnson  Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,209
Wet side WA
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Super low to almost no wear metals. Looks great imo! thumbsup


That's my thought. I wouldn't change a thing and see what the next UOA looks like.


2004 Corolla 124705
Out: VML 5w-30 TG4967 OCI 5007 Miles
In: EDGE EP 5W-30 Bosch 3311 122537 7-18-18
2006 Duramax 74277
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 74705 4-22-18
Re: Castrol Syn 0w20, 5434mi OCI, 20196mi 2017 Mazda 6 [Re: danielLD] #4529994
09/30/17 06:49 AM
09/30/17 06:49 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,780
.
Danh Offline
Danh  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,780
.
Originally Posted By: danielLD
Ah yes everything looks great and shiny!! But alas this UOA for you may look good from far, but it is far from good!!

The fact is trending is useless for automotive tribology. In my time with Tribologik, I argued every day how trending is the key to nothing. Here is the problem, you're trending continues right, so we then use those trends as a "safety baseline" but what happens when the safety baseline wasn't safe to begin with? If you need to trend in this industry, you're not an analyst. Trending is ok on a locomotive engine or a turbine, not on a vehicle with irregular conditions on the daily.

1. viscosity, it is very low, especially at 5,000 miles your ethanol usage and your highway miles.

2. you have fuels dilution, flash point is not "lowish". It is low, address it or why even do UOA.

3. you're insolubles is not from contamination, this is from EGRed deposits and FD.

4. You can dismiss every notion I have mentioned to feel good about the test, but at a minimum consider reevaluating how easy you dismiss everything.

Tests to get done at Polaris. I know they use a PE gas chromatograph as I've spoked with Brett Minges on the accuracy of PE vs. some other brands.(surprised no one ever debates machinery for tests on here)

1. Fuel by GC 2. Water by KF.
I strongly suggest the acid number as well if you can afford it.



Cripes, look at a UOA of any DI Honda using 0w-20: you'll find viscosities below 7.0 in almost every case and below 6.0 in some cases. As an owner of such Hondas I'd be delighted with this UOA.

DI engines are just prone to fuel dilution and shedding 1 - 1.5 points of cSt at 100C during an OCI from dilution and shearing is in the good side of normal.

Re: Castrol Syn 0w20, 5434mi OCI, 20196mi 2017 Mazda 6 [Re: danielLD] #4530010
09/30/17 07:21 AM
09/30/17 07:21 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,308
South Carolina
alarmguy Offline
alarmguy  Offline
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,308
South Carolina
Originally Posted By: danielLD
This UOA is not good, that UOA is concerning.

1. Viscosity is too low and it is diluted, likely from fuel.

2. Flashpoint is too low, needs to be higher, another fuel dilution issue.

3. Your insolubles in a brand new engine are too high. 0.1 tops in a new engine, this is from EGRed residuals and deposits, as well as fuel dilution.

4. Control the issue, improve power & fuel economy.


Im assuming he has the Mazda Skyactive engine (please confirm), the highest compression mass produced engine in the world (and its awesome) which is also direct injection.
Anyway, there is always fuel in these engines, no big deal but its a good idea with any UOA to truly bring the oil up to operating temperture before taking a sample.


One thing for sure, it beats anything in its class (and more) for fuel economy and power. Again, assuming he has the Skyactive engine which I can guess he does. But would be great to know for sure, its an awesome engine.

Personally I think its crazy to add an oil additive to any modern engine, even more so in such a specialized engine as the Skyactive which is unmatched in the automotive world. I agree with the other poster in here, he is experimenting for no good reason. He doesnt know what he is experimenting with, even if it led to a trace lower wear rating, who isnt to say this additive will not build up on the pistons and rings over time? Leading to far more wear or failure?
(just some things to think about)

Last edited by alarmguy; 09/30/17 07:27 AM.

14 Road King (current)
08 VStar 1300 Tourer
07 Suzuki C50
Re: Castrol Syn 0w20, 5434mi OCI, 20196mi 2017 Mazda 6 [Re: danielLD] #4530073
09/30/17 09:22 AM
09/30/17 09:22 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,968
MN
oil_film_movies Online content
oil_film_movies  Online Content
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,968
MN
I'd use just LiquiMoly MOS2 which is just moly with no hexagonal boron nitride like Ceratec has.

Originally Posted By: danielLD
This UOA is not good, that UOA is concerning.
Its a very good UOA, no problems, low wear, etc.

Originally Posted By: danielLD
1. Viscosity is too low and it is diluted, likely from fuel.
Not diluted much at all. Viscosity normally drops about 3 to 6 thousand miles into an oil change due to Viscosity Index Improver (VII) chemicals polymer coil breakage.
https://www.oronite.com/paratone/calcviscosity.aspx

Originally Posted By: danielLD
2. Flashpoint is too low, needs to be higher, another fuel dilution issue.
Flashpont is close to 400, which is enough.

Originally Posted By: danielLD
3. Your insolubles in a brand new engine are too high. 0.1 tops in a new engine, this is from EGRed residuals and deposits, as well as fuel dilution.
Not from fuel dilution at all. I agree insolubles could be lower. I'd suggest trying a Fram Ultra or MicroGreen oil filter to clean out more soot and conglomerates than normal all-paper oil filters can do. Also a Dimple or GoldPlug strong magnet drain plug helps.

Originally Posted By: danielLD
4. Control the issue, improve power & fuel economy.

Last edited by oil_film_movies; 09/30/17 09:24 AM.
Re: Castrol Syn 0w20, 5434mi OCI, 20196mi 2017 Mazda 6 [Re: SF0059] #4530092
09/30/17 09:38 AM
09/30/17 09:38 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 226
Chicago
danielLD Offline
danielLD  Offline
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 226
Chicago
ahhh, I wish people had to post their job title and field in their signatures. I challenge the OP to actually get a half way decent UOA.

It's a new engine. One thing many here (who ARE NOT UOA analysts) miss, is in a brand new engine, FD won't cause much wear. Just wait till later on when ferritic micro corrosion becomes present.

Oil_film_movies. A magnetic drain plug won't do diddly in a modern engine, yes it's fuel dilution causing that filter to load.

Re: Castrol Syn 0w20, 5434mi OCI, 20196mi 2017 Mazda 6 [Re: danielLD] #4530101
09/30/17 09:47 AM
09/30/17 09:47 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,308
South Carolina
alarmguy Offline
alarmguy  Offline
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,308
South Carolina
Originally Posted By: danielLD
ahhh, I wish people had to post their job title and field in their signatures. I challenge the OP to actually get a half way decent UOA.

It's a new engine. One thing many here (who ARE NOT UOA analysts) miss, is in a brand new engine, FD won't cause much wear. Just wait till later on when ferritic micro corrosion becomes present.

Oil_film_movies. A magnetic drain plug won't do diddly in a modern engine, yes it's fuel dilution causing that filter to load.


To me, it seems you are conflicting with yourself. Unless I am misunderstanding your post.
Your going on about people who are not UOA analysts and FD wont cause much wear etc. Yet the UOA does not show FD.
So which is it?

For me, I assume fuel, even though the UOA does NOT show it, because EVERY Skyactive engine seems to shows fuel since it was produced starting around 2012. No big deal, direct injection engine like others and has been rock solid.

Last edited by alarmguy; 09/30/17 09:48 AM.

14 Road King (current)
08 VStar 1300 Tourer
07 Suzuki C50
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™