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Purpose of tube where oil filter mounts #4525175
09/24/17 08:13 PM
09/24/17 08:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 88
Boston, Massachusetts
Exit32 Offline OP
Exit32  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 88
Boston, Massachusetts
I finally got around to changing the oil and filter on my '65 Rambler that's equipped with the 196-cu-in OHV inline-six engine. The old oil filter was a NAPA 1049 without an anti-drainback valve The new filter is a NAPA 1258 equipped with an ADV. The old filter is about 5 inches tall; the new filter is about 4 inches tall.

When I removed the old oil filter, I found a tube -- about 4 inches long -- that protrudes from the oil-filter mount and extends into the oil filter when the filter is installed. There was room to accommodate the tube within the old 5-inch-tall filter, but the tube bottoms out inside the new 4-inch-tall filter. Thus, I am unable to install the new NAPA 1258 filter which "should" fit according to multiple sources.

Is it possible the tube on the filter mount exists to ensure oil doesn't drain from the filter when the engine isn't running? If that's the case, can I continue to use the taller NAPA 1049 filter that doesn't have an ADV?

See photo of tube below:



2018 Explorer 3.5 EcoBoost
2004 Buick Rainier V8
2002 T-Bird
1999 F250 V10
1967 Camaro
1966 Shelby Cobra
1966 Pontiac GTO
1965 Rambler American
1957 T-Bird
Re: Purpose of tube where oil filter mounts [Re: Exit32] #4525186
09/24/17 08:23 PM
09/24/17 08:23 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 725
Canada
i_hate_autofraud Offline
i_hate_autofraud  Offline

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 725
Canada

This pipe was the old school way of keeping oil in the filter.

If there's enough room for a pipe cutter tool, you could cut back the pipe an inch OR use
the taller NAPA 1049 filter that doesn't have an ADV and use a shorter filter later.

If you can use a pipe cutter, cover everything up since the cutter will generate
small metal bits that will fall straight down!

Nicely restored engine by the way! smile








taller NAPA 1049 filter that doesn't have an ADV?

Re: Purpose of tube where oil filter mounts [Re: Exit32] #4525188
09/24/17 08:26 PM
09/24/17 08:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,892
USA
slacktide_bitog Offline
slacktide_bitog  Offline

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,892
USA
cut a few inches off the tube hide

Re: Purpose of tube where oil filter mounts [Re: Exit32] #4525247
09/24/17 09:12 PM
09/24/17 09:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,407
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Chris142 Offline
Chris142  Offline

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,407
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
The slant-6 mopar used the same idea.


02 Wrangler carlube 5w30
87 F250 traveler 15w40
07 fjcruiser Chevron 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am maveric edge 5w40
57 case tractor 15w40
Re: Purpose of tube where oil filter mounts [Re: Exit32] #4525260
09/24/17 09:29 PM
09/24/17 09:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
OneEyeJack Offline
OneEyeJack  Offline

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
Things were just too simple back then and worked well.

Re: Purpose of tube where oil filter mounts [Re: Exit32] #4525276
09/24/17 09:48 PM
09/24/17 09:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,120
Tennessee
goodtimes Offline
goodtimes  Offline

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,120
Tennessee
You will spoil the originality plus it is risky to cut the tube. The tube works with an adbv, otherwise it does nothing. The tube keeps the oil from flowing through the media and down the center hole. Fram makes the right one and it's a nice type too. I had a maxima with the same setup, had an adbv.

http://www.fram.com/Search-Parts/Part-Detail?PN=HP2

Re: Purpose of tube where oil filter mounts [Re: i_hate_autofraud] #4525281
09/24/17 09:55 PM
09/24/17 09:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 88
Boston, Massachusetts
Exit32 Offline OP
Exit32  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 88
Boston, Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: i_hate_autofraud

This pipe was the old school way of keeping oil in the filter.

If there's enough room for a pipe cutter tool, you could cut back the pipe an inch OR use
the taller NAPA 1049 filter that doesn't have an ADV and use a shorter filter later.

If you can use a pipe cutter, cover everything up since the cutter will generate
small metal bits that will fall straight down!

Nicely restored engine by the way! smile


Thanks for confirming the function of the pipe is to keep oil from draining out of the filter when the engine isn't running. When I removed the old filter, lots of oil old flowed out of it as soon as the filter's gasket separated from the filter mount. That tells me this old-fashioned arrangement works well enough to leave it as is. I don't want to risk dropping a metal chip by cutting the tube, and I'd prefer to have everything just as it was when the car left the factory.

I'll pick up a new NAPA 1049 oil filter tomorrow and find another use for the shorter filter. I appreciate your compliment about the engine!


2018 Explorer 3.5 EcoBoost
2004 Buick Rainier V8
2002 T-Bird
1999 F250 V10
1967 Camaro
1966 Shelby Cobra
1966 Pontiac GTO
1965 Rambler American
1957 T-Bird
Re: Purpose of tube where oil filter mounts [Re: Exit32] #4525298
09/24/17 10:18 PM
09/24/17 10:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 20,351
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 20,351
PNW
Yep, keep it stock and use the right filter.

Re: Purpose of tube where oil filter mounts [Re: goodtimes] #4525307
09/24/17 10:29 PM
09/24/17 10:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 88
Boston, Massachusetts
Exit32 Offline OP
Exit32  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 88
Boston, Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
You will spoil the originality plus it is risky to cut the tube. The tube works with an adbv, otherwise it does nothing. The tube keeps the oil from flowing through the media and down the center hole. Fram makes the right one and it's a nice type too. I had a maxima with the same setup, had an adbv.

http://www.fram.com/Search-Parts/Part-Detail?PN=HP2


Thanks for the info about the Fram HP2. I see Amazon carries that filter.

I have to wonder if the AMC engineers included a one-way valve on the oil-filter input. That way, the tube keeps oil from flowing through the media like you said, and the one-way valve would keep oil inside the filter from flowing back out the input when the engine is stopped. Why have that tube if it does nothing?


2018 Explorer 3.5 EcoBoost
2004 Buick Rainier V8
2002 T-Bird
1999 F250 V10
1967 Camaro
1966 Shelby Cobra
1966 Pontiac GTO
1965 Rambler American
1957 T-Bird
Re: Purpose of tube where oil filter mounts [Re: Exit32] #4525336
09/24/17 11:20 PM
09/24/17 11:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,997
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,997
Waco, TX
It is called a "standpipe"

If you peruse the Baldwin catalog, you'll notice some of them have this feature built in.

A lot of tractors that have oil filters mounted "gasket down" use the oil filters with "integral standpipes".

Your Rambler has the standpipe built right onto the nipple, which wasn't common on many engine throughout the years.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Purpose of tube where oil filter mounts [Re: ZeeOSix] #4525340
09/24/17 11:22 PM
09/24/17 11:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 408
PA
dnastrau Offline
dnastrau  Offline

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 408
PA
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Yep, keep it stock and use the right filter.


+1. Don't cut the standpipe.

Andrew S.

Re: Purpose of tube where oil filter mounts [Re: ZeeOSix] #4525842
09/25/17 02:20 PM
09/25/17 02:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 14,126
Illinois
tig1 Offline
tig1  Offline

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 14,126
Illinois
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Yep, keep it stock and use the right filter.


+1. Don't cut it.


2007 Ford Fusion 239,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 65K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and Valvoline LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters

Re: Purpose of tube where oil filter mounts [Re: Exit32] #4526000
09/25/17 05:13 PM
09/25/17 05:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,120
Tennessee
goodtimes Offline
goodtimes  Offline

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,120
Tennessee
Originally Posted By: Exit32
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
You will spoil the originality plus it is risky to cut the tube. The tube works with an adbv, otherwise it does nothing. The tube keeps the oil from flowing through the media and down the center hole. Fram makes the right one and it's a nice type too. I had a maxima with the same setup, had an adbv.

http://www.fram.com/Search-Parts/Part-Detail?PN=HP2


Thanks for the info about the Fram HP2. I see Amazon carries that filter.

I have to wonder if the AMC engineers included a one-way valve on the oil-filter input. That way, the tube keeps oil from flowing through the media like you said, and the one-way valve would keep oil inside the filter from flowing back out the input when the engine is stopped. Why have that tube if it does nothing?


It's just my opinion that the standpipe does nothing without an adbv. The inner pipe side could be easily tested by pouring oil in the pipe and seeing if it goes down. If the oil stays up then it does hold oil for awhile maybe until the next engine start the next day. For sure if no adbv, the outer oil chamber will drain out. The original filter may have had an adbv.

Re: Purpose of tube where oil filter mounts [Re: Exit32] #4526381
09/26/17 05:34 AM
09/26/17 05:34 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,809
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline
Global Moderator
dnewton3  Offline
Global Moderator

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Posts: 7,809
Indianapolis, IN
As several have said, don't cut that pipe!

I suspect it's just "press fit" into the hex drive of the pipe nipple. If you gently wiggle/pull on it, it should come out.

You can keep it for the sake of posterity to return to "OEM" condition at any time, and yet by removing it, you can use a larger selection of filters that would fit.


The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: Purpose of tube where oil filter mounts [Re: Exit32] #4526634
09/26/17 11:14 AM
09/26/17 11:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 88
Boston, Massachusetts
Exit32 Offline OP
Exit32  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 88
Boston, Massachusetts
Thanks again to everyone for their opinions and advice here.

After lots of online research and deep thought, I've decided to leave the standpipe exactly as is. I found a local auto parts store that carries the FRAM PH11 Extra Guard oil filter -- with an ADV -- and plan to use the PH11 and Rotella T4 motor oil for my Rambler's annual oil and filter changes.

My local NAPA store was kind enough to accept the return of the too-short 1258 oil filter, and I received a full refund. All's well that ends well.


2018 Explorer 3.5 EcoBoost
2004 Buick Rainier V8
2002 T-Bird
1999 F250 V10
1967 Camaro
1966 Shelby Cobra
1966 Pontiac GTO
1965 Rambler American
1957 T-Bird
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