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Residential HVAC guru needed #4522561
09/21/17 07:33 PM
09/21/17 07:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 558
MN
14Accent Offline OP
14Accent  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 558
MN
Hey all-

I'm trying to wrap my head around how to wire a new thermostat to my home heating system. My 2 story home was built in 1905 and utilizes most of the original radiators for hot water heat (which I love). However, the rear of the house was added on to some time in the past and those rooms use baseboard heaters. The main floor is the kitchen, and directly above on the second floor is the master bedroom. There are two thermostats, one in the living room and one in the kitchen, which are approximately 15 feet apart.

You can already see the problem: the radiators pump out MUCH MUCH more heat than the baseboard heaters. As such, the kitchen thermostat picks up on the heat from the rest of the main floor and has no way of truely modulating the temperature of my bedroom. I can set the living room 'stat at 72 degrees and the kitchen at 80 degrees, it still won't heat my bedroom due to placement.

My boiler is a New Yorker, model # CG40CNC-TE2. There are two water valves post-output, obviously for the two "zones" (if you can call them zones). For some reason, the installer used two different valves. Both are Honeywell, one is model # V8043E5079 and one is model # V8043E1012.

Here's my question: how do I go about making one thermostat control both zones, independent of each other? I'd like to put a wireless temperature probe in my bedroom that feeds actual readings to the 'stat, that way it can control temperature for the room that matters. I realize that this will make the kitchen hotter than need be, but that's fine.

So far, the only 'stat I've seen that can do this economically is the new Ecobee 4, which includes a separate wireless temperature probe and can control multiple zones. Where I get lost, is how to wire is all up. Do both water valves wire to a single thermostat? That doesn't seem to be the way things work. I have absolutely no HVAC exoerience but from what I've gathered I need a zone controller. However, all of these I see are designed for 3,4,5 etc. zones! I don't need all that. I just want to monitor and control one room separately from the other 90% of the house.

Am I missing something obvious?


2013 Chevrolet Volt - Saves enough in fuel to pay for itself!

2003 Cadillac Seville STS - The winter "beater", it uses the Volt's fuel
Re: Residential HVAC guru needed [Re: 14Accent] #4522593
09/21/17 07:58 PM
09/21/17 07:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,523
USA
mk378 Offline
mk378  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,523
USA
How do the pipes run? In other words which radiators are connected to which valve? That is the control you have. Each thermostat should be mounted where it is mostly heated by the radiators it controls.

What you may end up needing to do is make the bedroom a third zone.

You don't need fancy wireless thermostats unless it is REALLY inconvenient to run wires.

Re: Residential HVAC guru needed [Re: 14Accent] #4522595
09/21/17 08:01 PM
09/21/17 08:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 10,684
Phoenix, AZ
Nick1994 Offline
Nick1994  Offline
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 10,684
Phoenix, AZ
I think you need an HVAC guy come out and install the thermostats and switch things around.


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Re: Residential HVAC guru needed [Re: mk378] #4522653
09/21/17 09:31 PM
09/21/17 09:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 558
MN
14Accent Offline OP
14Accent  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 558
MN
Originally Posted By: mk378
How do the pipes run? In other words which radiators are connected to which valve? That is the control you have. Each thermostat should be mounted where it is mostly heated by the radiators it controls.

What you may end up needing to do is make the bedroom a third zone.

You don't need fancy wireless thermostats unless it is REALLY inconvenient to run wires.


Running wires is inconvenient. I have no intention of tearing out walls and running wires from the 2nd story to the basement.

All of the original radiators are connected to the valve that's controlled by the living room thermostat. The baseboard heaters are controlled by the thermostat in the kitchen. I have plenty of control right now, at the source. It's the ability of the thermostat that's compromised. What I need is the ability to combine the function of two thermostats in to one.

Ideal scenario: Thermostat uses built-in sensor to regulate temperature of the main floor (and the rooms with radiators upstairs), and remote wireless temp probe relays master bedroom temp back to 'stat, allowing it to control boiler/zone 2 water valve when necessary to heat just that circuit.

I feel like it sounds more complicated than it is. I realize it's a "special" scenario but it can't be that outside the realm of creativity given how automated things are today.


2013 Chevrolet Volt - Saves enough in fuel to pay for itself!

2003 Cadillac Seville STS - The winter "beater", it uses the Volt's fuel
Re: Residential HVAC guru needed [Re: 14Accent] #4522663
09/21/17 09:51 PM
09/21/17 09:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,154
USA
Reddy45 Offline
Reddy45  Offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,154
USA
Does the addition to the house matter in the overall picture? I need to know if I can ignore that part of the house. Mixing up the boiler heat and the baseboard (I assume electric?) heat is making things confusing. Let's focus on one set of variables at a time.

And is the master bedroom also heated by radiators?

Re: Residential HVAC guru needed [Re: Reddy45] #4522671
09/21/17 10:03 PM
09/21/17 10:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 558
MN
14Accent Offline OP
14Accent  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 558
MN
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
Does the addition to the house matter in the overall picture? I need to know if I can ignore that part of the house. Mixing up the boiler heat and the baseboard (I assume electric?) heat is making things confusing. Let's focus on one set of variables at a time.

And is the master bedroom also heated by radiators?


I do apologize! I thought I had clarified that orignally. The baseboard heat is radiant run by hot water, just like the radiators. Both the circuits run off of the same boiler, they just have individual thermostats controlling the water valves off the output from the boiler. The kitchen and master are the only rooms in the whole house (4 br, 2 ba plus basement) that use baseboard heaters vs. cast iron radiators.


2013 Chevrolet Volt - Saves enough in fuel to pay for itself!

2003 Cadillac Seville STS - The winter "beater", it uses the Volt's fuel
Re: Residential HVAC guru needed [Re: 14Accent] #4522781
09/22/17 02:36 AM
09/22/17 02:36 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 911
Florida
laserred96gt Online content
laserred96gt  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 911
Florida
Since your radiators pump much more heat than the baseboard heaters, having just one thermostat won't really solve your master bedroom problem.
I'm assuming the kitchen thermostat also controls the heat in the master bedroom, if relocating the thermostat in the master is not an option then perhaps installing a remote sensor in the bedroom and have the thermostat operate based on what it senses in the bedroom would be a solution.
Since the master bedroom is directly above the kitchen maybe there is a way to fish the thermostat wire up on the second floor and just relocate the thermostat there.

You already have 2 zones (thermostats) I don't think you need a new zone board, just find a thermostat with remote sensing capabilities, install it the kitchen and configure it to Sense the temperature from the remote sensor in the bedroom only.

Last edited by laserred96gt; 09/22/17 02:48 AM.

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Re: Residential HVAC guru needed [Re: 14Accent] #4523039
09/22/17 09:58 AM
09/22/17 09:58 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 9,560
Boston, MA
HerrStig Offline
HerrStig  Offline
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 9,560
Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: 14Accent
Originally Posted By: mk378
How do the pipes run? In other words which radiators are connected to which valve? That is the control you have. Each thermostat should be mounted where it is mostly heated by the radiators it controls.

What you may end up needing to do is make the bedroom a third zone.

You don't need fancy wireless thermostats unless it is REALLY inconvenient to run wires.


Running wires is inconvenient. I have no intention of tearing out walls and running wires from the 2nd story to the basement.

All of the original radiators are connected to the valve that's controlled by the living room thermostat. The baseboard heaters are controlled by the thermostat in the kitchen. I have plenty of control right now, at the source. It's the ability of the thermostat that's compromised. What I need is the ability to combine the function of two thermostats in to one.

Ideal scenario: Thermostat uses built-in sensor to regulate temperature of the main floor (and the rooms with radiators upstairs), and remote wireless temp probe relays master bedroom temp back to 'stat, allowing it to control boiler/zone 2 water valve when necessary to heat just that circuit.

I feel like it sounds more complicated than it is. I realize it's a "special" scenario but it can't be that outside the realm of creativity given how automated things are today.
Tearing out walls? Use a snake. Thermostat wiring is not bulky. Your thermostats control "zone valves" which turn and off the flow of heated water or steam to the area the thermostat controls. A circulator pump is used to move hot water through baseboards, steam flows on its own. The thermostat turns on the pump and opens the zone valve to the area it controls. You'll be wise to have an expert look at your "mixed" system which may have done done by a shoemaker.

Last edited by HerrStig; 09/22/17 10:08 AM.

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