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#4519421 - 09/18/17 01:17 PM BMW aluminum sub frame repair
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 13655
Loc: Illinois
This is the same repair I did on a mid 2000 Bmw. This repair was the second one I have done on BMWs. Also did one on a front wheel drive Chevy.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/open...repair-bmw.html


Edited by tig1 (09/18/17 01:25 PM)
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#4519512 - 09/18/17 03:19 PM Re: BMW aluminum sub frame repair [Re: tig1]
Ethan1 Offline


Registered: 12/29/14
Posts: 1632
Loc: 'murica
This car needs a cradle for the same reason that the Corvette was totalled over a 1" crack: every authority in the auto industry forbids welding cast aluminum structural members.

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#4519519 - 09/18/17 03:32 PM Re: BMW aluminum sub frame repair [Re: Ethan1]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 13655
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: Ethan1
This car needs a cradle for the same reason that the Corvette was totalled over a 1" crack: every authority in the auto industry forbids welding cast aluminum structural members.


Did you view the video I provided? If you did you will notice the factory welds the brackets to the sub frame, and they do a poor weld at that. It's there weld that fails.
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#4519526 - 09/18/17 03:41 PM Re: BMW aluminum sub frame repair [Re: tig1]
HerrStig Offline


Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 9560
Loc: Boston, MA
Didn't the Fast and Loud guys weld up a GT 40?

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#4519528 - 09/18/17 03:43 PM Re: BMW aluminum sub frame repair [Re: HerrStig]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 13655
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Didn't the Fast and Loud guys weld up a GT 40?


Aaron tig welded it, and it appeared to be a very good job.
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#4519545 - 09/18/17 04:00 PM Re: BMW aluminum sub frame repair [Re: tig1]
Rand Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 12638
Loc: NE,Ohio
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Ethan1
This car needs a cradle for the same reason that the Corvette was totalled over a 1" crack: every authority in the auto industry forbids welding cast aluminum structural members.


Did you view the video I provided? If you did you will notice the factory welds the brackets to the sub frame, and they do a poor weld at that. It's there weld that fails.


What video? I see a link to a forum with 2 pictures?
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#4519657 - 09/18/17 07:03 PM Re: BMW aluminum sub frame repair [Re: Rand]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 13655
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Ethan1
This car needs a cradle for the same reason that the Corvette was totalled over a 1" crack: every authority in the auto industry forbids welding cast aluminum structural members.


Did you view the video I provided? If you did you will notice the factory welds the brackets to the sub frame, and they do a poor weld at that. It's there weld that fails.


What video? I see a link to a forum with 2 pictures?


Video was a typo. Sorry. The two pics shows the brackets that broke from the sub-frame.
_________________________
2007 Ford Fusion 227,000 miles
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2017 Ford Fusion 49K
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10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and MC LV
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#4519790 - 09/18/17 09:14 PM Re: BMW aluminum sub frame repair [Re: tig1]
rooflessVW Offline


Registered: 12/24/11
Posts: 4018
Loc: North Carolina
Do you have photos of your repair?
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#4519840 - 09/18/17 10:30 PM Re: BMW aluminum sub frame repair [Re: rooflessVW]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 13655
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Do you have photos of your repair?


No I don't. Even if I did, since Photo Bucket went south I can't seem to figure how to use a different system.
_________________________
2007 Ford Fusion 227,000 miles
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#4519947 - 09/19/17 01:46 AM Re: BMW aluminum sub frame repair [Re: Ethan1]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 18828
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: Ethan1
This car needs a cradle for the same reason that the Corvette was totalled over a 1" crack: every authority in the auto industry forbids welding cast aluminum structural members.


I wouldn't buy into that Corvette story too much, there is more to that story IMO than is being told.
The part tunnel cost almost 8K and even if the labor was 3x that its still not enough to total a 60K new car.
I cant see why the insurance company would pay 2x the money out when the don't have to.

I can see not welding a control arm or its mounting parts on the cradle but a sway bar bracket is not really a high stress part in comparison, the bar itself takes most of the stress if the form of torsion just look at the brackets and the small diameter bolts that hold them, they are very low strength parts.
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#4519955 - 09/19/17 02:09 AM Re: BMW aluminum sub frame repair [Re: tig1]
rooflessVW Offline


Registered: 12/24/11
Posts: 4018
Loc: North Carolina
Sure, don't weld cast aluminum. However, I'm fairly certain that the cross member is an extruded aluminum piece. The brackets that broke would be aluminum bar stock welded on. The Corvette chassis would have been stamped aluminum... Shouldn't have been to difficult to repair.

Only the outer mounts themselves should be cast aluminum here, and they're cheap enough to replace. Was this a car with active sway bars? Looks like it.
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#4520093 - 09/19/17 08:34 AM Re: BMW aluminum sub frame repair [Re: Trav]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 13655
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Ethan1
This car needs a cradle for the same reason that the Corvette was totalled over a 1" crack: every authority in the auto industry forbids welding cast aluminum structural members.


I wouldn't buy into that Corvette story too much, there is more to that story IMO than is being told.
The part tunnel cost almost 8K and even if the labor was 3x that its still not enough to total a 60K new car.
I cant see why the insurance company would pay 2x the money out when the don't have to.

I can see not welding a control arm or its mounting parts on the cradle but a sway bar bracket is not really a high stress part in comparison, the bar itself takes most of the stress if the form of torsion just look at the brackets and the small diameter bolts that hold them, they are very low strength parts.





Trav,
What breaks the swaybar bracket is a jolt to the suspension. My customers wife hit a large pot hole going about 45MPH. The other customer drove over a concrete wheel stop in a parking lot. There couldn't be much stress on the welded bracket because of how poorly the factory weld is. It's been 2-3 years since I welded these and I haven't heard back from them. However my weld was much stronger so I didn't expect to hear from them.
_________________________
2007 Ford Fusion 227,000 miles
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2017 Ford Fusion 49K
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M1 ATF and MC LV
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#4520241 - 09/19/17 12:01 PM Re: BMW aluminum sub frame repair [Re: Trav]
Ethan1 Offline


Registered: 12/29/14
Posts: 1632
Loc: 'murica
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Ethan1
This car needs a cradle for the same reason that the Corvette was totalled over a 1" crack: every authority in the auto industry forbids welding cast aluminum structural members.


I wouldn't buy into that Corvette story too much, there is more to that story IMO than is being told.
The part tunnel cost almost 8K and even if the labor was 3x that its still not enough to total a 60K new car.
I cant see why the insurance company would pay 2x the money out when the don't have to.

I can see not welding a control arm or its mounting parts on the cradle but a sway bar bracket is not really a high stress part in comparison, the bar itself takes most of the stress if the form of torsion just look at the brackets and the small diameter bolts that hold them, they are very low strength parts.





The other repairs were $8k, plus it needed the trans tunnel which GM does not offer. GM stated that replacement would compromise the vehicle.

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#4520868 - 09/20/17 01:49 AM Re: BMW aluminum sub frame repair [Re: tig1]
Carmudgeon Offline


Registered: 04/26/05
Posts: 533
Loc: Under the hood
I've seen this happen to an E63 6-series with active roll. I don't know if it was a road hazard impact or the stress of the system that caused the right side sway attachment to fracture from the subframe, though it was relatively mild compared to the one pictured.

Dealer and indy shop both quoted thousands for replacement of the front subframe, even for a junkyard part in the case of the latter.

I directed them to a local welder/race car fabricator who repaired it for a fraction of the cost. I didn't hear of any issues with the repair before the car was traded in for another.


Edited by Carmudgeon (09/20/17 01:50 AM)

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#4521008 - 09/20/17 08:25 AM Re: BMW aluminum sub frame repair [Re: Carmudgeon]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 13655
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: Carmudgeon
I've seen this happen to an E63 6-series with active roll. I don't know if it was a road hazard impact or the stress of the system that caused the right side sway attachment to fracture from the subframe, though it was relatively mild compared to the one pictured.

Dealer and indy shop both quoted thousands for replacement of the front subframe, even for a junkyard part in the case of the latter.

I directed them to a local welder/race car fabricator who repaired it for a fraction of the cost. I didn't hear of any issues with the repair before the car was traded in for another.


Both of my customers also told me the sub frame cost would be in the 5K+ range to replace. Paying that kind of money to get another sub frame with poorly welded brackets.
_________________________
2007 Ford Fusion 227,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 49K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and MC LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters


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