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2013 Sportster Red Line 20w-50 5000 miles #4494198
08/21/17 06:57 AM
08/21/17 06:57 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 905
Indiana (IN)
shanneba Offline OP
shanneba  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 905
Indiana (IN)
Here is my lastest UOA running Red Line MC 20w-50 with a Mobil1 MC 131 oil filter.
The HD oil filter wrench 94863-10 does fit the Mobil 1 MC 131 filter.
Next OCI will be with the Harley Davidson SuperPremium 5 micron filter.

Copper didn't drop like I was hoping for.
All other wear is still about the Universal averages at almost twice the mileage.

I did buy a Power Vision back in December and have run a couple dozen auto tune sessions of a 30 to 60 minutes,
a couple were a couple hours long ~ 100 miles, where I ran the rpms higher than I normally do.

I also replaced my air cleaner element when I started the Auto Tuning.
The increase in silicone I believe was from the new air filter not filtering as well.
The silicone level went up to about what it was when the bike was new.

The particle count is still better on the 4 and 6 micron size but 14 and 21 increased.
Latest UOA is on the right side- you may need to scroll a little.

Sql Query:
+--------+----------------+-----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+
|        |  Miles on oil  |   1022    |   4118   |   4860   |   5000   |   5000   |   5000   |
+--------+----------------+-----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+
|        | Total miles    | 1022      | 5140     | 10000    | 15000    | 20000    | 25000    |
|        | Date           | 08/22/13  | 07/29/14 | 06/14/15 | 02/20/16 | 10/12/16 | 08/16/17 |
|        | Make up oil    | 0         | 0        | 0        | 0        | 0        | 0        |
|        | Oil Brand      | FF HD 360 | HD Syn3  | R L MC   | R L MC   | R L MC   | R L MC   |
| Univ.  | Weight         | 20W-50    | 20w-50   | 20w-50   | 20w-50   | 20w-50   | 20w-50   |
| Av.    |                |           |          |          |          |          |          |
| 2500   | Filter         | HD C      | HD C     | HD C     | HD B     | M1 MC131 | M1 MC131 |
|  miles |                |           |          |          |          |          |          |
| 5      | ALUMINUM       | 10        | 13       | 5        | 3        | 1        | 8        |
| 1      | CHROMIUM       | 0         | 0        | 1        | 0        | 0        | 0        |
| 11     | IRON           | 14        | 11       | 12       | 8        | 5        | 6        |
| 15     | COPPER         | 190       | 278      | 263      | 132      | 75       | 72       |
| 2      | LEAD           | 10        | 12       | 6        | 4        | 1        | 1        |
| 1      | TIN            | 10        | 17       | 27       | 9        | 3        | 3        |
| 60     | MOLYBDENUM     | 2         | 21       | 375      | 456      | 403      | 461      |
| 1      | NICKEL         | 1         | 1        | 1        | 1        | 0        | 0        |
| 0      | MANGANESE      | 2         | 1        | 0        | 0        | 0        | 0        |
| 0      | SILVER         | 1         | 0        | 0        | 0        | 1        | 0        |
| 0      | TITANIUM       | 0         | 0        | 0        | 0        | 0        | 0        |
| 2      | POTASSIUM      | 22        | 11       | 11       | 7        | 4        | 1        |
| 153    | BORON          | 314       | 258      | 48       | 15       | 13       | 23       |
| 9      | SILICON        | 29        | 14       | 11       | 10       | 8        | 24       |
| 30     | SODIUM         | 8         | 9        | 11       | 7        | 10       | 7        |
| 1843   | CALCIUM        | 1411      | 1286     | 2242     | 2703     | 2214     | 2528     |
| 442    | MAGNESIUM      | 776       | 726      | 156      | 45       | 16       | 12       |
| 987    | PHOSPHORUS     | 900       | 755      | 1540     | 1676     | 1516     | 1703     |
| 1184   | ZINC           | 1099      | 1107     | 2046     | 2315     | 1811     | 2177     |
| 1      | BARIUM         | 1         | 3        | 3        | 3        | 3        | 3        |
|        |                |           |          |          |          |          |          |
|        | SUS @ 210F     | 89.0      | 85.6     | 96.2     | 98.8     | 103.9    | 99.1     |
|        | cSt @ 100C     | 17.74     | 16.92    | 19.45    | 20.08    | 21.26    | 20.14    |
|        | Flashpoint F   | 440       | 460      | 430      | 430      | 420      | 410      |
|        | Fuel         % | <0.5      | <0.5     | <0.5     | <0.5     | <0.5     | >0.5     |
|        | Antifreeze %   | 0         | 0        | 0        | 0        | 0        | 0        |
|        | Water       %  | 0         | 0        | 0        | 0        | 0        | 0        |
|        | Insolubles %   | 0.2       | 0.2      | 0.2      | 0.2      | tr       | 0.2      |
|        | TBN            |           | 7.0      | 6.2      |          |          |          |
|        |                |           |          |          |          |          |          |
|        | Particle Count |           |          |          |          |          |          |
|        |                |           |          |          |          |          |          |
|        | ISO Code (2)   |           |          |          | 21/14    | 18/14    | 20/15    |
|        | NAS 1638 Class |           |          |          | 12       | 10       | 12       |
|        | ISO Code (3)   |           |          |          | 24/21/14 | 24/18/14 | 24/20/15 |
|        | SAE AS4059 cpc |           |          |          | 12       | 12       | 12       |
|        | 4 Micron       |           |          |          | 122237   | 85538    | 99920    |
|        | 6 Micron       |           |          |          | 18446    | 2430     | 8597     |
|        | 14 Micron      |           |          |          | 97       | 117      | 269      |
|        | 21 Micron      |           |          |          | 23       | 22       | 36       |
|        | 38 Micron      |           |          |          | 3        | 2        | 3        |
|        | 70 Micron      |           |          |          | 0        | 0        | 0        |
+--------+----------------+-----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+


2003 BMW 330Ci
2013 HD Sportster XL1200C
Re: 2013 Sportster Red Line 20w-50 5000 miles [Re: shanneba] #4498838
08/26/17 05:16 PM
08/26/17 05:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,771
Arizona
bulwnkl Offline
bulwnkl  Offline
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,771
Arizona
I can't reconcile your comments about particle counts with the data. This latest was much 'dirtier' from 21 microns on down. You have more silicon, more fuel, and more 'insolubles.' Address these things and your remaining wear numbers will continue to drop. I actually think the wear looks pretty good, despite the unfavorable changes.

Re: 2013 Sportster Red Line 20w-50 5000 miles [Re: bulwnkl] #4499211
08/27/17 08:10 AM
08/27/17 08:10 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 905
Indiana (IN)
shanneba Offline OP
shanneba  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 905
Indiana (IN)
"The particle count is still better on the 4 and 6 micron size but 14 and 21 increased."

The comparison is to the UOA with the HD standard filter, not compared to the last UOA that also used the Mobil 1 filter.
I am sure the increased silicone is from the new air cleaner element since it is so close to the original UOA when the bike was new (also with a new filter).

The only wear element that is still high is copper, it's likely either a cam bushing or a valve guide, time will tell.


2003 BMW 330Ci
2013 HD Sportster XL1200C
Re: 2013 Sportster Red Line 20w-50 5000 miles [Re: shanneba] #4499807
08/27/17 08:54 PM
08/27/17 08:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,771
Arizona
bulwnkl Offline
bulwnkl  Offline
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,771
Arizona
Okay, I can see that, then.

I think you're now over-fueling the bike, which isn't helping anything in terms of wear. Maybe you like the way it runs now better, though(?).

Re: 2013 Sportster Red Line 20w-50 5000 miles [Re: shanneba] #4500033
08/28/17 06:18 AM
08/28/17 06:18 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,308
South Carolina
alarmguy Offline
alarmguy  Offline
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,308
South Carolina
I dont know anything about sportsters, at least the iron is low.
Cant remember if engine shares with trans or primary.
Have you seen other sportster UOAs with low copper?

Always a mystery with copper on the touring bikes, maybe it will just go away as it does them?
Though you have quite a few miles on it now.


14 Road King (current)
08 VStar 1300 Tourer
07 Suzuki C50
Re: 2013 Sportster Red Line 20w-50 5000 miles [Re: bulwnkl] #4500095
08/28/17 07:58 AM
08/28/17 07:58 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 905
Indiana (IN)
shanneba Offline OP
shanneba  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 905
Indiana (IN)
Originally Posted By: bulwnkl
Okay, I can see that, then.

I think you're now over-fueling the bike, which isn't helping anything in terms of wear. Maybe you like the way it runs now better, though(?).


I am actually running the bike "leaner" than stock. I still have all the stock AFR 14.6 to 1 settings plus I changed the deceleration section of the AFR table from 14.3 and 13.0 to also be 14.6 to one to keep the bike in closed loop operation. It does get richer until about a MAP reading of around 85 or so, that works out to about 25-30% throttle where I seldom run the bike. Most of my riding is on state highways with speed limits of 55-60mph at about 10-15% throttle opening.


2003 BMW 330Ci
2013 HD Sportster XL1200C
Re: 2013 Sportster Red Line 20w-50 5000 miles [Re: alarmguy] #4500098
08/28/17 08:03 AM
08/28/17 08:03 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 905
Indiana (IN)
shanneba Offline OP
shanneba  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 905
Indiana (IN)
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
I dont know anything about sportsters, at least the iron is low.
Cant remember if engine shares with trans or primary.
Have you seen other sportster UOAs with low copper?

Always a mystery with copper on the touring bikes, maybe it will just go away as it does them?
Though you have quite a few miles on it now.


The Sportster has a separate oil supply for the engine, the Primary and Transmission share another oil supply.

Blackstones Universal average for copper is 15 in 2500 miles. Copper had been coming down but not this time. Maybe eventually is drop some more.
The increase in silicone from the new air cleaner could have caused addition copper from the valve guides. Time will tell.


2003 BMW 330Ci
2013 HD Sportster XL1200C
Re: 2013 Sportster Red Line 20w-50 5000 miles [Re: shanneba] #4549507
10/20/17 06:47 PM
10/20/17 06:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,015
pa
benjy Online content
benjy  Online Content
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,015
pa
be careful with a more restrictive filter as HS's typically have low oil pressure!!! even the M-8's oil pressure is lower than most, unlike the Indian's car like 60 LB!!!

Re: 2013 Sportster Red Line 20w-50 5000 miles [Re: shanneba] #4552580
10/24/17 05:25 AM
10/24/17 05:25 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 905
Indiana (IN)
shanneba Offline OP
shanneba  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 905
Indiana (IN)
No matter the pressure (the viscosity of the oil will determine that) the oil pumps the same volume of oil per revolution.


2003 BMW 330Ci
2013 HD Sportster XL1200C

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