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:::Any Ideas On What This Might Be (Transmission) #4487019
08/13/17 02:39 AM
08/13/17 02:39 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 104
Charlotte NC
NDL Offline OP
NDL  Offline OP

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 104
Charlotte NC
Hello y'all:

I write regarding my Wife's 2008 Chevy Impala, 3.5L V6; 4T60E transmission; 120k miles

It pains me to write this...

When the car reached 60k, the transmission started shifting a little rough. Note: the fluid looked and smelled good. On the advice of another Impala owner, I changed the fluid and filter, which solved the problem.

Now the car has 120k miles. At times, the car will "bump" into first, when accelerating from a dead stop. She slips a little; the "bump" is minor; this is not an abrupt bang into first - nor do I feel this every time I accelerate from a dead stop. The issue is exacerbated when accelerating on a small grade.

I don't feel this shifting issue with any of the other gears. Downshifts are likewise smooth.

My Wife is the primary driver of the car, and I am often the passenger. She has adapted her driving style to suit the problem; if you feather the accelerator from a stop, you will not feel any abnormal shifting behavior. This is why I was alarmed when I came across the problem; with her feathering the accelerator, I didn't even know that a problem existed.

The fluid looks and smells good; the level was a little low, so I topped it off with Lucas.

I am hoping that the issue is no worse than the shift solenoid needing a replacement (though even that repair couldn't have come at a worse time).

Any ideas? Does it sound like a shift solenoid? If so, is it an easy job? How long would it take, and any ideas on what would a shop charge to fix the problem?

Thank you in advance, for your time and guidance

Re: :::Any Ideas On What This Might Be (Transmission) [Re: NDL] #4487034
08/13/17 03:43 AM
08/13/17 03:43 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,947
Ohio
L_Sludger Offline
L_Sludger  Offline

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,947
Ohio
Hi NDL,
I just want to point out the following logic steps.
1) At 60,000 miles, the car developed shift quality issues on the original fluid. The original fluid looked and smelled good. Replacement of the fluid and filter solved the issue until
2) At 120,000 miles, or at the same fluid usage interval as 1) above, the car has developed shift quality issues on 60,000 mile-old fluid again. As before, the fluid looks and smells good.

We have established that by this point, given past experience, your transmission fluid and filter need to be replaced.

Logically, you would repeat the process of replacing the fluid and filter.
Instead of repeating the fix that worked previously, you added an additive?! Lucas??!! And you're worried about some shift solenoid without even getting a diagnostic code. I'll tell you one thing, that Lucas isn't doing the solenoid any favors. Really, the big thing IMO is to change the trans filter to keep fluid flow at its peak. A transmission is a fluid coupling. The condition of that fluid, and the flow of that fluid, will dictate whether the transmission will work properly as designed. So why don't you start with the fluid again? Dump out the old stuff, especially the Lucas, put in a new genuine filter and quality ATF, and go from there. It seems like you're due anyway.


too many cars and oil combinations to list in 150 characters or less
Re: :::Any Ideas On What This Might Be (Transmission) [Re: L_Sludger] #4487043
08/13/17 05:06 AM
08/13/17 05:06 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,094
Colorado
Kuato Offline
Kuato  Offline

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,094
Colorado
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Hi NDL,
I just want to point out the following logic steps.
1) At 60,000 miles, the car developed shift quality issues on the original fluid. The original fluid looked and smelled good. Replacement of the fluid and filter solved the issue until
2) At 120,000 miles, or at the same fluid usage interval as 1) above, the car has developed shift quality issues on 60,000 mile-old fluid again. As before, the fluid looks and smells good.

We have established that by this point, given past experience, your transmission fluid and filter need to be replaced.

Logically, you would repeat the process of replacing the fluid and filter.
Instead of repeating the fix that worked previously, you added an additive?! Lucas??!! And you're worried about some shift solenoid without even getting a diagnostic code. I'll tell you one thing, that Lucas isn't doing the solenoid any favors. Really, the big thing IMO is to change the trans filter to keep fluid flow at its peak. A transmission is a fluid coupling. The condition of that fluid, and the flow of that fluid, will dictate whether the transmission will work properly as designed. So why don't you start with the fluid again? Dump out the old stuff, especially the Lucas, put in a new genuine filter and quality ATF, and go from there. It seems like you're due anyway.


Said it MUCH better than I would have.

+1, change the fluid.


Thick vs Thin test: 15k / 43k miles complete
Re: :::Any Ideas On What This Might Be (Transmission) [Re: Kuato] #4487099
08/13/17 07:27 AM
08/13/17 07:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,481
Rochester, MI, US, World
Klutch9 Offline
Klutch9  Offline

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,481
Rochester, MI, US, World
Change the fluid again. Also, that "bump"... could it be a bad motor mount?


'11 Fusion SE 2.5L - 83k miles - HK 0w20 syn, Wix XP filter
'08 Sedona LX LWB 3.8L - 129k miles - Havoline HM 5w20, Auto7 filter
Re: :::Any Ideas On What This Might Be (Transmission) [Re: NDL] #4487125
08/13/17 08:11 AM
08/13/17 08:11 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,378
Raleigh ,NC CSA
rshaw125 Offline
rshaw125  Offline

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,378
Raleigh ,NC CSA
Solenoid. They come in a set of 4. replace all of them at the same time. My Buick started doing it at 100,000 or so miles. After the miles pile up pretty common. So common that ebay sells the set of 4 for about $60.


2012 Porsche Carrera S
2016 Ford Edge 2.0
2002 Taurus Vulcan SOLD
2006 Explorer SOLD
Re: :::Any Ideas On What This Might Be (Transmission) [Re: rshaw125] #4487221
08/13/17 10:59 AM
08/13/17 10:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 11,272
OH
SatinSilver Offline
SatinSilver  Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 11,272
OH
Yes, as mentioned, fluid, filter and some Lubegard. Specifically the Shudder Fix and Lubegard Red.

Link

Shudder Fix

You can buy that products at different places since I haven't shopped prices. Check Amazon for both.

Last edited by SatinSilver; 08/13/17 11:00 AM.
Re: :::Any Ideas On What This Might Be (Transmission) [Re: L_Sludger] #4487393
08/13/17 02:03 PM
08/13/17 02:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 104
Charlotte NC
NDL Offline OP
NDL  Offline OP

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 104
Charlotte NC
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Hi NDL,
I just want to point out the following logic steps.
1) At 60,000 miles, the car developed shift quality issues on the original fluid. The original fluid looked and smelled good. Replacement of the fluid and filter solved the issue until
2) At 120,000 miles, or at the same fluid usage interval as 1) above, the car has developed shift quality issues on 60,000 mile-old fluid again. As before, the fluid looks and smells good.

We have established that by this point, given past experience, your transmission fluid and filter need to be replaced.

Logically, you would repeat the process of replacing the fluid and filter.
Instead of repeating the fix that worked previously, you added an additive?! Lucas??!! And you're worried about some shift solenoid without even getting a diagnostic code. I'll tell you one thing, that Lucas isn't doing the solenoid any favors. Really, the big thing IMO is to change the trans filter to keep fluid flow at its peak. A transmission is a fluid coupling. The condition of that fluid, and the flow of that fluid, will dictate whether the transmission will work properly as designed. So why don't you start with the fluid again? Dump out the old stuff, especially the Lucas, put in a new genuine filter and quality ATF, and go from there. It seems like you're due anyway.


Appreciate yours, and everyone else's, reply.

I started this thread well into the night (early morning), and edited it for length before posting it. Apparently, half awake, I omitted the part that mentioned me having changed the fluid and filter again, at 116k. When I checked the fluid level at 120k, I noticed the level it was a little off, and topped it off with Lucas.

Sorry that I wasted everyone's time, by omitting this fact. And do I *wish* that a fluid change would have eliminated the problem...unfortunately, the fresh fluid and filter didn't help matters. And yes...I used fluid and (a) filter that are spec. The fluid again looked and smelled good.

Thanks again to all who replied

Re: :::Any Ideas On What This Might Be (Transmission) [Re: rshaw125] #4487397
08/13/17 02:06 PM
08/13/17 02:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 104
Charlotte NC
NDL Offline OP
NDL  Offline OP

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 104
Charlotte NC
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Solenoid. They come in a set of 4. replace all of them at the same time. My Buick started doing it at 100,000 or so miles. After the miles pile up pretty common. So common that ebay sells the set of 4 for about $60.


Does it sound like a solenoid issue? Is it something that the average shop would fix? Is it labor intensive (costly)?

Thanks so much

Re: :::Any Ideas On What This Might Be (Transmission) [Re: SatinSilver] #4487400
08/13/17 02:09 PM
08/13/17 02:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 104
Charlotte NC
NDL Offline OP
NDL  Offline OP

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 104
Charlotte NC
Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Yes, as mentioned, fluid, filter and some Lubegard. Specifically the Shudder Fix and Lubegard Red.

Link

Shudder Fix

You can buy that products at different places since I haven't shopped prices. Check Amazon for both.


Appreciate the links, although I think I am done with additives for the moment.

Re: :::Any Ideas On What This Might Be (Transmission) [Re: NDL] #4487414
08/13/17 02:23 PM
08/13/17 02:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,378
Raleigh ,NC CSA
rshaw125 Offline
rshaw125  Offline

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,378
Raleigh ,NC CSA
I did it myself because I had the time. On a lift it would have been a lot easier. They lower the driver's side down and remove the trans side cover. Youtube videos available.

The solenoids control the shifts and the TCC lock up.


2012 Porsche Carrera S
2016 Ford Edge 2.0
2002 Taurus Vulcan SOLD
2006 Explorer SOLD
Re: :::Any Ideas On What This Might Be (Transmission) [Re: rshaw125] #4487476
08/13/17 03:26 PM
08/13/17 03:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 104
Charlotte NC
NDL Offline OP
NDL  Offline OP

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 104
Charlotte NC
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
I did it myself because I had the time. On a lift it would have been a lot easier. They lower the driver's side down and remove the trans side cover. Youtube videos available.

The solenoids control the shifts and the TCC lock up.


Appreciate the explanation. Since you've changed the solenoids, has the problem completely disappeared?

(Please forgive the redundancy in my questions; I still have a old school, "hydraulic," oriented way of thinking, that shifting issues spell major costly problems)

Re: :::Any Ideas On What This Might Be (Transmission) [Re: NDL] #4487502
08/13/17 03:43 PM
08/13/17 03:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,947
Ohio
L_Sludger Offline
L_Sludger  Offline

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,947
Ohio
Originally Posted By: NDL
Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Yes, as mentioned, fluid, filter and some Lubegard. Specifically the Shudder Fix and Lubegard Red.

Link

Shudder Fix

You can buy that products at different places since I haven't shopped prices. Check Amazon for both.


Appreciate the links, although I think I am done with additives for the moment.

I'd change out the fluid again to excise the Lucas and then maybe I would consider an additive at this point like Lubegard - it is a Hail Mary pass at this point, but the downsides are limited. It shouldn't harm your transmission.


too many cars and oil combinations to list in 150 characters or less
Re: :::Any Ideas On What This Might Be (Transmission) [Re: NDL] #4487635
08/13/17 05:46 PM
08/13/17 05:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,378
Raleigh ,NC CSA
rshaw125 Offline
rshaw125  Offline

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,378
Raleigh ,NC CSA
Originally Posted By: NDL
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
I did it myself because I had the time. On a lift it would have been a lot easier. They lower the driver's side down and remove the trans side cover. Youtube videos available.

The solenoids control the shifts and the TCC lock up.


Appreciate the explanation. Since you've changed the solenoids, has the problem completely disappeared?

(Please forgive the redundancy in my questions; I still have a old school, "hydraulic," oriented way of thinking, that shifting issues spell major costly problems)


Yep. The solenoid change cured the problem. That was 30,000 miles ago. I triple checked the fluid level after the change and it has shifted perfectly since. The transmission has only Dexron Vl in it.
Check out the you tube videos.


2012 Porsche Carrera S
2016 Ford Edge 2.0
2002 Taurus Vulcan SOLD
2006 Explorer SOLD
Re: :::Any Ideas On What This Might Be (Transmission) [Re: L_Sludger] #4487795
08/13/17 08:15 PM
08/13/17 08:15 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 104
Charlotte NC
NDL Offline OP
NDL  Offline OP

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 104
Charlotte NC
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
I'd change out the fluid again to excise the Lucas and then maybe I would consider an additive at this point like Lubegard - it is a Hail Mary pass at this point, but the downsides are limited. It shouldn't harm your transmission.


I'll keep that in mind. Thank you...

Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Yep. The solenoid change cured the problem. That was 30,000 miles ago. I triple checked the fluid level after the change and it has shifted perfectly since. The transmission has only Dexron Vl in it.
Check out the you tube videos.


Many thanks for the helpful feedback

Re: :::Any Ideas On What This Might Be (Transmission) [Re: NDL] #4487812
08/13/17 08:28 PM
08/13/17 08:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,875
Fort Worth, Texas
clinebarger Offline
clinebarger  Offline

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,875
Fort Worth, Texas
Sounds like a leak in the Input Clutch circuit, It will cause the EXACT symptoms you describe!

There are 3 areas of concern in the Input Clutch circuit.....
1. The Input Clutch Apply Piston inner sealing area gets worn & the Inner Lip Seal can no longer effectively seal against the piston.

2. GM used a "Short Lip" inner seal, This is an extension of #1.....The short Lip allows NO compensation for the Piston wearing.

3. Leaking-Shrunk teflon sealing rings on the Input Clutch Housing.



A combination of #1 & #2 is the usual culprit, Repairing this requires removal of the trans & partial tear down, The piston can most likely be saved by polishing the sealing surface with some fine emroy cloth. Replace the short lip inner seal with a Long Lip design that was factory in TH440-T4/4T60 units. Most aftermarket 4T65E seal kits come with the early long lip design seal.

The Input Clutch & Piston are worked to death in this unit, It is "On" in 1st & 2nd gears & "off" in 3rd & 4th gears.

I don't have any input about "seal conditioners" or other additives to band-aid this well documented issue. Good Luck!


2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/U341E
2000 Toyota Avalon 1MZ-FE/A541E
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