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Selling '08 Civic to Family Member (Repairs???) #4486774
08/12/17 06:09 PM
08/12/17 06:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,520
New England
gathermewool Online content OP
gathermewool  Online Content OP
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,520
New England
Car: Honda Civic LX (with EX-L wheels)

Mileage: 130k

Extras:
2nd set of steelies with Conti snow tires with > 7-8/32" tread depth left
Weathertech floor mats
custom sun shade

Who: Sister in-law and husband. They have one car (family of four) and the husband could really use a cheap 2nd car to get to work. I honestly don't know how they do it with one car now!

Objective: Get rid of car for more than free, but a great deal for them. I don't want to make any sort of profit. I gave my last old car to my sister (she had no money) and want to sell this to them for a reasonably low price.

The good:

1. Gets great gas mileage

2. Price: $2500. I'm not sure how much I could get selling it on my own, but I feel like $2500 is at least a grand less than I could get for it (we don't need to rush and sell it)

The Issues:
1. Rattle from engine compartment: MAY BE the tensioner --> I replaced the hydraulic mount that failed with a new OEM one. The tensioner and pulley seemed to operate fine by hand, when I replaced near the same time. The rattle has not changed or gotten worse in the past several years and is only prominent while cold.

I don't know if its related, but the belt squeals for 1-3 seconds after startup occasionally. It did it this afternoon.

2. Slow tire leak: One of the alloy wheels/all-season tires has a slow leak (34-->~26# in a few weeks) that doesn't show up with soap bubble test and isn't

3. Hard start: I don't know the reason, but the car for the past yera begun taking a little longer to start (dut dut dut dut vroom instead of dut dut vroom, if that makes sense.) In the winter, it will also struggle to start ONLY on occasion. It ALWAYS starts and runs really well.

4. Vibration @ hot idle in gear: reading the forums, this seems to be a pretty common problem, without any obvious cause (some say clean throttle body, some say it's the electronic load detector and reduced voltage, etc.). Occurs after warmed up, in summer mostly, and while stopped and in gear. It's not bone rattling, but it's a noticeable vibration. Voltage indicates high 12's after the car has warmed and without much load; turning on my lights or any other load will trip the ELD, raise voltage to 13-14VDC, and reduce vibration, though it still remains.

5. Battery: not really a problem, but it's ~ 4 years old. It was drained to the point where it would not start once in its life, but that was a while ago. I also use a smart charger ~ every month to keep the battery topped up. Change it?

6. Hazy headlight: I'm listing this, but I have the 3M kit I plan to use to clean this up a bit.

7. Previous damage: car was side swiped by a truck at low speeds while the previous owner owned it. The paint job is not noticeable by most, but when you look close you can tell it was a hack job. No rust or unevenness, but it's not great.

//

Except for the vibration and occasional hard-start (which would likely be attributable to the extreme cold weather when it occurs), I doubt the majority of owners out there notice the small things I notice and make a big deal of.

Question: What would you have taken care of, do yourself, etc. before selling a vehicle to a family member who would rely on its dependability? I'll reiterate that this car has never failed to start, has never run poorly, and does not have any issue I would feel needs to be fixed immediately.

I work a lot of hours and don't have the time I used to to fix things on my own. My sister in-law has a family friend who can give them a good deal if any works pops up in the future.


'14 Forester XT FA20DIT (Cobb Stage 1)
Edge 0W-40 + FU filter (64,774 miles)
'15 Legacy FB25 (OEM Stage, uh, neg. 7?)
Edge 0W-20 + FU filter (40,803 miles)
Re: Selling '08 Civic to Family Member (Repairs???) [Re: gathermewool] #4486782
08/12/17 06:13 PM
08/12/17 06:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,283
WI
HoosierJeeper Offline
HoosierJeeper  Offline
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,283
WI
I don't know if I'd sell a car to a family member, unless it was a project car or something. If you're in no rush to get rid of it, just list it higher and wait.

Otherwise, tell them you're taking a grand loss on it...so maybe they'll be less likely to quibble over any issues.


15 Jeep KL Limited V6: Formula Shell 5W20
07 LR3 SE V8: Maxlife 5W30
05 Jeep KJ Limited: PHM 5W30
96 Jeep XJ Country: STP HM 5W30 (winter)
Re: Selling '08 Civic to Family Member (Repairs???) [Re: HoosierJeeper] #4486790
08/12/17 06:24 PM
08/12/17 06:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,520
New England
gathermewool Online content OP
gathermewool  Online Content OP
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,520
New England
Originally Posted By: HoosierJeeper
I don't know if I'd sell a car to a family member, unless it was a project car or something. If you're in no rush to get rid of it, just list it higher and wait.

Otherwise, tell them you're taking a grand loss on it...so maybe they'll be less likely to quibble over any issues.


Thanks for the input. They know it's at a loss. My wife is very close with her family and told them we were selling our car. Knowing they needed a 2nd car, we offered for much less. They know this and this is why they said they'd buy it.

I have no issues with selling to these guys. I'm handy enough to simply things that fail in the near-term (brakes, dead battery, fuel pump, whatever) and they know they'll be responsible for other things (tensioner, engine issues due to them not changing the oil or checking its level - it doesn't burn any appreciable oil at the moment between 7k+ OCI's)

I modified my original past to show why I'm selling it. They need a 2nd car, but likely can't afford or don't want to pay for something decent. @2500 for a solid car seems like a great price. They also know it will be as-is (all of the above issues will be discussed and they will know that if they have any concerns, they should go to their mechanic and have it actually diagnosed and fixed, if needed.)

Last edited by gathermewool; 08/12/17 06:30 PM.

'14 Forester XT FA20DIT (Cobb Stage 1)
Edge 0W-40 + FU filter (64,774 miles)
'15 Legacy FB25 (OEM Stage, uh, neg. 7?)
Edge 0W-20 + FU filter (40,803 miles)
Re: Selling '08 Civic to Family Member (Repairs???) [Re: gathermewool] #4486797
08/12/17 06:37 PM
08/12/17 06:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,526
NY, USA, etc.
oilpsi2high Offline
oilpsi2high  Offline
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,526
NY, USA, etc.
I wouldn't ever sell a car, truck, boat, etc. to a family member or even a co-worker because as soon as something goes wrong they are going to try to hold you accountable.

Unless they REALLY want the car, and if they know exactly what they're getting into (show them your post) then I wouldn't do it. If you do, be prepared to hear it the first time they have to sink money into it.

Re: Selling '08 Civic to Family Member (Repairs???) [Re: oilpsi2high] #4486802
08/12/17 06:43 PM
08/12/17 06:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,520
New England
gathermewool Online content OP
gathermewool  Online Content OP
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,520
New England
Originally Posted By: oilpsi2high
I wouldn't ever sell a car, truck, boat, etc. to a family member or even a co-worker because as soon as something goes wrong they are going to try to hold you accountable.

Unless they REALLY want the car, and if they know exactly what they're getting into (show them your post) then I wouldn't do it. If you do, be prepared to hear it the first time they have to sink money into it.


Good point, though it won't deter me from selling to them. Just in case they're being impulsive, it might make sense to pull a bunch of ads for cars with similar mileage to show them. $2.5k vs 4, 5, 4.5, 4, 5, 3.5, etc. might drive the point home.

So, what I'm saying is that I'd rather lower the price to reduce their risk than simply not sell the car to them.


'14 Forester XT FA20DIT (Cobb Stage 1)
Edge 0W-40 + FU filter (64,774 miles)
'15 Legacy FB25 (OEM Stage, uh, neg. 7?)
Edge 0W-20 + FU filter (40,803 miles)
Re: Selling '08 Civic to Family Member (Repairs???) [Re: gathermewool] #4486805
08/12/17 06:46 PM
08/12/17 06:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,224
Houston, TX
Coprolite Offline
Coprolite  Offline
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,224
Houston, TX
For me, the most objective value is whatever Carmax offers you + $1.

Re: Selling '08 Civic to Family Member (Repairs???) [Re: Coprolite] #4486808
08/12/17 06:49 PM
08/12/17 06:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,520
New England
gathermewool Online content OP
gathermewool  Online Content OP
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,520
New England
Originally Posted By: Coprolite
For me, the most objective value is whatever Carmax offers you + $1.


Have you ever been to Carmax? I've only had one experience, but they offered me thousands less than INITIAL OFFERS from dealers for trade-in. I told them it was not enough and that it was laughable and they said they would not budge. I crumpled up the offer and threw it in the trash before walking out. I'll admit that I was already a bit miffed, since I saw them take the car for a spin, pull it into and then out of the bay for inspection, and then park it more than 45 minutes before someone came to see me about the offer. I asked several times and was told to please wait until called on. Selling my car felt like waiting at the DMV.

Carmax may offer more than you think is fair, about what you expect or much less. It's all about demand and what they can sell. I can't imagine Carmax would even make an offer on such an old car, but I don't know - I don't have experience with whether Carmax purchase such old vehicles.

Last edited by gathermewool; 08/12/17 06:52 PM.

'14 Forester XT FA20DIT (Cobb Stage 1)
Edge 0W-40 + FU filter (64,774 miles)
'15 Legacy FB25 (OEM Stage, uh, neg. 7?)
Edge 0W-20 + FU filter (40,803 miles)
Re: Selling '08 Civic to Family Member (Repairs???) [Re: gathermewool] #4486811
08/12/17 06:53 PM
08/12/17 06:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,283
WI
HoosierJeeper Offline
HoosierJeeper  Offline
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,283
WI
I guess another way to see it is, look at what else they'd get for $2500....likely something with way more severe issues and likely none of them would be disclosed. So as a good karma deed, maybe they'll see what they're getting and why it's a deal.


15 Jeep KL Limited V6: Formula Shell 5W20
07 LR3 SE V8: Maxlife 5W30
05 Jeep KJ Limited: PHM 5W30
96 Jeep XJ Country: STP HM 5W30 (winter)
Re: Selling '08 Civic to Family Member (Repairs???) [Re: gathermewool] #4486817
08/12/17 06:59 PM
08/12/17 06:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,183
OH
fdcg27 Offline
fdcg27  Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,183
OH
This is a very fair price for a nine year old Civic of known history, especially since you're giving them the skinny on every little problem.
As long as they understand that if something catastrophic happens next month they're out $2500.00, sell them the car.


18 Accord Hybrid FF
17 Forester 18K VME 0W-20
12 Accord LX 96K SSO 0W-20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W-30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W-20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 318i
Re: Selling '08 Civic to Family Member (Repairs???) [Re: gathermewool] #4486822
08/12/17 07:03 PM
08/12/17 07:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,520
New England
gathermewool Online content OP
gathermewool  Online Content OP
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,520
New England
We are the 2nd owner. The 1st owner is a friend of the family, so the entire history of the car is known.


'14 Forester XT FA20DIT (Cobb Stage 1)
Edge 0W-40 + FU filter (64,774 miles)
'15 Legacy FB25 (OEM Stage, uh, neg. 7?)
Edge 0W-20 + FU filter (40,803 miles)
Re: Selling '08 Civic to Family Member (Repairs???) [Re: gathermewool] #4486824
08/12/17 07:04 PM
08/12/17 07:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,224
Houston, TX
Coprolite Offline
Coprolite  Offline
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,224
Houston, TX
I sold them a car or two when then dealers wouldn't come up on trade in. That was easily 5 years ago. This last time, they gave me a ridiculously low price on my pickup, so I ignored them.

My point is that trade in value represents a reasonable and objective discount vs. what they would pay at a car lot. Carmax was an example of a place. If anything goes wrong with the car, they know that they got a good discount and shouldn't be angry. This also takes naming the price out of both parties' hands, which is why I used the word objective. Fair never entered the equation until you used it.


Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: Coprolite
For me, the most objective value is whatever Carmax offers you + $1.


Have you ever been to Carmax? I've only had one experience, but they offered me thousands less than INITIAL OFFERS from dealers for trade-in. I told them it was not enough and that it was laughable and they said they would not budge. I crumpled up the offer and threw it in the trash before walking out. I'll admit that I was already a bit miffed, since I saw them take the car for a spin, pull it into and then out of the bay for inspection, and then park it more than 45 minutes before someone came to see me about the offer. I asked several times and was told to please wait until called on. Selling my car felt like waiting at the DMV.

Carmax may offer more than you think is fair, about what you expect or much less. It's all about demand and what they can sell. I can't imagine Carmax would even make an offer on such an old car, but I don't know - I don't have experience with whether Carmax purchase such old vehicles.

Re: Selling '08 Civic to Family Member (Repairs???) [Re: gathermewool] #4486826
08/12/17 07:07 PM
08/12/17 07:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,520
New England
gathermewool Online content OP
gathermewool  Online Content OP
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,520
New England
Would you guys do anything else? The brake fluid is recently flushed. What about the battery, throttle body, etc. I'm very busy, but I could make it a point to do everything possible to fix all of the nits, if not that nats.

Other than price, that's the kind of advice I'm looking for, as well. I mean, I'll detail the car inside and out before giving it to them, but don't plan to do anything mechanically, because nothing is on my personal 6-12 month plan for what needs to be done.


'14 Forester XT FA20DIT (Cobb Stage 1)
Edge 0W-40 + FU filter (64,774 miles)
'15 Legacy FB25 (OEM Stage, uh, neg. 7?)
Edge 0W-20 + FU filter (40,803 miles)
Re: Selling '08 Civic to Family Member (Repairs???) [Re: gathermewool] #4486832
08/12/17 07:16 PM
08/12/17 07:16 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,224
Houston, TX
Coprolite Offline
Coprolite  Offline
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,224
Houston, TX
As a good BITOGer, give them a free oil change?

It sounds like you are in the same spot as I am( maintenance wise) with my '08. I am waiting to perform my first oil change, but have already flushed the transmission and replaced the motor mount, changed all the brakes and flushed the brake fluid. The PSF will also go when the oil does. However, all this was after I got it from my parents. To get all that for $2500 would have been a great deal.



Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Would you guys do anything else? The brake fluid is recently flushed. What about the battery, throttle body, etc. I'm very busy, but I could make it a point to do everything possible to fix all of the nits, if not that nats.

Other than price, that's the kind of advice I'm looking for, as well. I mean, I'll detail the car inside and out before giving it to them, but don't plan to do anything mechanically, because nothing is on my personal 6-12 month plan for what needs to be done.

Re: Selling '08 Civic to Family Member (Repairs???) [Re: Coprolite] #4486836
08/12/17 07:23 PM
08/12/17 07:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,520
New England
gathermewool Online content OP
gathermewool  Online Content OP
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,520
New England
Originally Posted By: Coprolite
As a good BITOGer, give them a free oil change?

It sounds like you are in the same spot as I am( maintenance wise) with my '08. I am waiting to perform my first oil change, but have already flushed the transmission and replaced the motor mount, changed all the brakes and flushed the brake fluid. The PSF will also go when the oil does. However, all this was after I got it from my parents. To get all that for $2500 would have been a great deal.



Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Would you guys do anything else? The brake fluid is recently flushed. What about the battery, throttle body, etc. I'm very busy, but I could make it a point to do everything possible to fix all of the nits, if not that nats.

Other than price, that's the kind of advice I'm looking for, as well. I mean, I'll detail the car inside and out before giving it to them, but don't plan to do anything mechanically, because nothing is on my personal 6-12 month plan for what needs to be done.


Oil life monitor is at 100%

Thanks for the reminder. I completely forgot that I have 3 quarts of ATF and Lubegard Red to add, as well as a pint of PSF to swap out soon.

I'm wondering if the Lubegard red will be a risk not worth taking, now that I won't have time to evaluate, monitor and flush, if necessary.


'14 Forester XT FA20DIT (Cobb Stage 1)
Edge 0W-40 + FU filter (64,774 miles)
'15 Legacy FB25 (OEM Stage, uh, neg. 7?)
Edge 0W-20 + FU filter (40,803 miles)
Re: Selling '08 Civic to Family Member (Repairs???) [Re: gathermewool] #4486863
08/12/17 07:52 PM
08/12/17 07:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 33,555
ME
eljefino Offline
eljefino  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 33,555
ME
price is good, deal is fair if you fix the tensioner. I'd hate for it to throw a belt on them. Everything else is on them.

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