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Takata interim fix #4482111
08/07/17 05:59 PM
08/07/17 05:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 657
NJ
raaizin Offline OP
raaizin  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 657
NJ
A couple of weeks back I got my wifes' air bag replaced. Today I received a notice that the will do an interim fix on my car. Replace it now with a new unit of same design. It will get a permanent fix once the new parts are manufactured. I guess the chemicals are unstable after 10 years that is why there is an interim fix. It looks like it will be a while before this is fixed permanently. Car is a 2007 A6.

Re: Takata interim fix [Re: raaizin] #4482124
08/07/17 06:10 PM
08/07/17 06:10 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,404
Georgia
AVB Offline
AVB  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,404
Georgia
I don't know what the deal is, but we are doing recalls on recalls on some of the Chryslers.

Re: Takata interim fix [Re: raaizin] #4482196
08/07/17 07:23 PM
08/07/17 07:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,623
Santa Barbara, CA
bdcardinal Offline
bdcardinal  Offline
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,623
Santa Barbara, CA
Ya Mazda just called back all the CX7 and CX9 passenger side inflators and took down the page for us to order them. The ones being installed were interim repairs and they do not have a way for us to order the permanent fix yet.

On some Ford models the passenger side inflator was just never available and customers were sent a letter in June of 2016 telling them there was an advance notice. They have not been given anything else yet so we get lots of people calling rightfully worried.


2014 Ford Mustang GT Track Pack
1995 Ford Mustang GT

Ford/Mazda Parts Counter
NRA Benefactor Member
Opinions expressed are my own.
Re: Takata interim fix [Re: raaizin] #4482202
08/07/17 07:35 PM
08/07/17 07:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,979
MTL, CANADA
Rolla07 Offline
Rolla07  Offline
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,979
MTL, CANADA
I received a notice for mine but have yet to have the work done on passenger side module.


2007 Corolla Red Pearl 155k miles
PP 0w20 & ST 4967

Re: Takata interim fix [Re: raaizin] #4482244
08/07/17 08:17 PM
08/07/17 08:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,156
UT
BHopkins Offline
BHopkins  Offline
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,156
UT
Originally Posted By: raaizin
A couple of weeks back I got my wifes' air bag replaced. Today I received a notice that the will do an interim fix on my car. Replace it now with a new unit of same design. It will get a permanent fix once the new parts are manufactured. I guess the chemicals are unstable after 10 years that is why there is an interim fix. It looks like it will be a while before this is fixed permanently. Car is a 2007 A6.


It is not so much a matter of age, but humidity. Humidity breaks down the pellets, so the generant is no longer in pellet for, but rather powder. This drastically increases the surface area of the generant, which in turn drastically increases the burn rate. Faster burn rate = higher than designed pressures.

There are two theories of how moisture gets in the generant chamber, which is supposed to be sealed. I don't know that Takata does, but our company does leak checks on inflators to verify they don't leak. A leaker is scrap.

Anyway, the theory that Takata wants you to believe is that the seal eventually fails on some inflators, allowing humidity to enter the generant chamber, thus breaking down the generant pellets. Within the industry, word is that Takata does not control moisture well enough during the generant manufacturing process. Thus the moisture is in the generant from the very beginning, resulting in some batches that have high moisture content sealed up right inside the inflator. For these, it is inevitable that eventually the generant pellets will break down.

Takata now adds desiccant to the inside of their inflators. This should greatly extend the time before the pellets start breaking down.

So, the short answer is, the interim fix Audi is offering should be safe until a permanent fix is offered.

I would do it if it were my wife's car.


2013 Subaru Outback 2.5i - Idemitsu 0W-20 & Mobil 1 filter
2007 Mercedes SL550 - M1M 5W-40 & MB OEM filter
Re: Takata interim fix [Re: raaizin] #4482275
08/07/17 08:55 PM
08/07/17 08:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,662
Central Maryland
HangFire Offline
HangFire  Offline
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,662
Central Maryland
There's more to the story than humidity and sealing.

There is metal debris in some airbags. That debris has killed some people.

There was no production control or proper labeling. Thus, recall re-use of airbag production that should have been condemned, because it couldn't be properly identified. You know the little dials for day/date and little numbers for production line molded into the back of so many plastic auto products nowadays? Stickers? UV print? Dot matrix print? Takata didn't do that.


Various musings: http://hangfire.net
Re: Takata interim fix [Re: raaizin] #4482279
08/07/17 08:59 PM
08/07/17 08:59 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,404
Georgia
AVB Offline
AVB  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,404
Georgia
I know that all of the latest ones we are installing have a white stripe around the passenger inflator. The previous ones did not.

Last edited by AVB; 08/07/17 09:00 PM.
Re: Takata interim fix [Re: bdcardinal] #4482296
08/07/17 09:24 PM
08/07/17 09:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,282
Birmingham, AL
01rangerxl Online content
01rangerxl  Online Content
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,282
Birmingham, AL
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal

On some Ford models the passenger side inflator was just never available and customers were sent a letter in June of 2016 telling them there was an advance notice. They have not been given anything else yet so we get lots of people calling rightfully worried.


Yep! This airbag thing has been a communication fiasco. GM sent letters to Silverado owners way in advance of parts being available, and many owners were understandably upset when they were told there was no ETA.


2002 Ford Ranger XLT | 3.0 V6 Auto 2WD | 224K miles
1994 Ford Ranger STX | 4.0 V6 Manual 4X4 | 200K miles
1994 Ford Explorer XLT | 4.0 V6 Auto 4X4 | 246K miles
Re: Takata interim fix [Re: HangFire] #4482438
08/08/17 06:49 AM
08/08/17 06:49 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,156
UT
BHopkins Offline
BHopkins  Offline
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,156
UT
Originally Posted By: HangFire
There's more to the story than humidity and sealing.

There is metal debris in some airbags. That debris has killed some people.

There was no production control or proper labeling. Thus, recall re-use of airbag production that should have been condemned, because it couldn't be properly identified. You know the little dials for day/date and little numbers for production line molded into the back of so many plastic auto products nowadays? Stickers? UV print? Dot matrix print? Takata didn't do that.



Can you provide links to articles that provide evidence of this? I'm pretty positive this isn't correct.

When the inflator is over-pressurized from the defective generant, it bursts. The bursting inflator housing breaks apart into many pieces. This is where the metal debris comes from, resulting in injury and death.

There are no claims of foreign material in these inflators, except perhaps the moisture.


2013 Subaru Outback 2.5i - Idemitsu 0W-20 & Mobil 1 filter
2007 Mercedes SL550 - M1M 5W-40 & MB OEM filter
Re: Takata interim fix [Re: BHopkins] #4482682
08/08/17 11:25 AM
08/08/17 11:25 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,623
Santa Barbara, CA
bdcardinal Offline
bdcardinal  Offline
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,623
Santa Barbara, CA
Originally Posted By: BHopkins
Originally Posted By: HangFire
There's more to the story than humidity and sealing.

There is metal debris in some airbags. That debris has killed some people.

There was no production control or proper labeling. Thus, recall re-use of airbag production that should have been condemned, because it couldn't be properly identified. You know the little dials for day/date and little numbers for production line molded into the back of so many plastic auto products nowadays? Stickers? UV print? Dot matrix print? Takata didn't do that.



Can you provide links to articles that provide evidence of this? I'm pretty positive this isn't correct.

When the inflator is over-pressurized from the defective generant, it bursts. The bursting inflator housing breaks apart into many pieces. This is where the metal debris comes from, resulting in injury and death.

There are no claims of foreign material in these inflators, except perhaps the moisture.


I'm pretty sure HangFire works for one of Takata's competitors so this would be first hand knowledge.


2014 Ford Mustang GT Track Pack
1995 Ford Mustang GT

Ford/Mazda Parts Counter
NRA Benefactor Member
Opinions expressed are my own.
Re: Takata interim fix [Re: raaizin] #4482801
08/08/17 01:25 PM
08/08/17 01:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,253
Texas
JustinH Offline
JustinH  Offline
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,253
Texas
Had our Scion in for another recall and it is due for the passenger airbag inflator.

Was told that parts are not ready for the 2011 yet, and they are repairing them by model year. They are still working on the 2009 model year XB apparently.

I was told parts would be ready in 2018.


'11 Hyundai Sonata GLS
'11 Scion XB
Re: Takata interim fix [Re: BHopkins] #4483077
08/08/17 07:18 PM
08/08/17 07:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,662
Central Maryland
HangFire Offline
HangFire  Offline
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,662
Central Maryland
Originally Posted By: BHopkins
Can you provide links to articles that provide evidence of this? I'm pretty positive this isn't correct.

When the inflator is over-pressurized from the defective generant, it bursts. The bursting inflator housing breaks apart into many pieces. This is where the metal debris comes from, resulting in injury and death.

There are no claims of foreign material in these inflators, except perhaps the moisture.

There are two issues. The metal cartridge containing the explosive would rupture:
https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news...ecall/index.htm

There has been plastic and metal shavings found in the airbags:
"A 2006 internal log of quality issues noted problems with inflators sold to Mazda Motor Corp (7261.T), Ford Motor Co (F.N), BMW AG (BMWG.DE), Honda Motor Co (7267.T), Daimler AG's (7267.T) Mercedes-Benz, and Toyota Motor Corp (7203.T). The log listed problems including metal shavings and contamination, broken or missing clips, and deformed or misaligned parts. "
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-takata-inflators-exclusive-idUSKCN0VV0L6

I don't work for one of Takata's competitors. Until recently I had family working at Ford dealers (and have had, for, well, since there WERE Ford dealers), and at a previous job I worked in vehicle design with ex-Ford and ex-GM engineers.


Various musings: http://hangfire.net
Re: Takata interim fix [Re: HangFire] #4483198
08/08/17 10:00 PM
08/08/17 10:00 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,156
UT
BHopkins Offline
BHopkins  Offline
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,156
UT
Originally Posted By: HangFire
Originally Posted By: BHopkins
Can you provide links to articles that provide evidence of this? I'm pretty positive this isn't correct.

When the inflator is over-pressurized from the defective generant, it bursts. The bursting inflator housing breaks apart into many pieces. This is where the metal debris comes from, resulting in injury and death.

There are no claims of foreign material in these inflators, except perhaps the moisture.

There are two issues. The metal cartridge containing the explosive would rupture:
https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news...ecall/index.htm

There has been plastic and metal shavings found in the airbags:
"A 2006 internal log of quality issues noted problems with inflators sold to Mazda Motor Corp (7261.T), Ford Motor Co (F.N), BMW AG (BMWG.DE), Honda Motor Co (7267.T), Daimler AG's (7267.T) Mercedes-Benz, and Toyota Motor Corp (7203.T). The log listed problems including metal shavings and contamination, broken or missing clips, and deformed or misaligned parts. "
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-takata-inflators-exclusive-idUSKCN0VV0L6

I don't work for one of Takata's competitors. Until recently I had family working at Ford dealers (and have had, for, well, since there WERE Ford dealers), and at a previous job I worked in vehicle design with ex-Ford and ex-GM engineers.



Your quote of the Reuters article stopped one paragraph short. It goes on to say:

"Those problems eventually could allow moisture to contaminate the ammonium nitrate propellant, which in turn could lead to an inflator rupture, one of the former Takata managers told Reuters."

Again, the problem is moisture breaking down the generant. This leads to extreme internal pressures in the inflator, causing it to rupture. When the inflator ruptures, it breaks into pieces, sending metal parts tearing through the cushion and towards the occupant.

Every case that has been reported is related to this condition. It is all related to Takata deciding to use Ammonium Nitrate in their generant.

Your link to the Consumer Reports article didn't work. I searched all CR articles on the Takata issue and couldn't figure which one it was that you were referencing.

Last edited by BHopkins; 08/08/17 10:01 PM.

2013 Subaru Outback 2.5i - Idemitsu 0W-20 & Mobil 1 filter
2007 Mercedes SL550 - M1M 5W-40 & MB OEM filter
Re: Takata interim fix [Re: bdcardinal] #4483205
08/08/17 10:19 PM
08/08/17 10:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,156
UT
BHopkins Offline
BHopkins  Offline
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,156
UT
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
I'm pretty sure HangFire works for one of Takata's competitors so this would be first hand knowledge.


Actually, I work for one of Takata's competitors. Before that I worked for Takata. And before that I worked for Takata's competitor. I have over 26 years of experience in automotive safety systems, most of it in airbags, the rest in seatbelts. Among my jobs, I've managed testing of airbag inflators, and have been involved in teardwon and evaluation of performance of airbag inflators.

We have been watching the Takata issue very closely, as it has had a huge effect on our company also, and on the airbag industry as a whole.

My apologies to all who find it offensive when people here wave their credentials. (I am one of them.) But since it was already brought up, I wanted to clear the air. There is a lot of misinformation floating about on this issue.

Last edited by BHopkins; 08/08/17 10:23 PM.

2013 Subaru Outback 2.5i - Idemitsu 0W-20 & Mobil 1 filter
2007 Mercedes SL550 - M1M 5W-40 & MB OEM filter
Re: Takata interim fix [Re: raaizin] #4483214
08/08/17 10:40 PM
08/08/17 10:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,623
Santa Barbara, CA
bdcardinal Offline
bdcardinal  Offline
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,623
Santa Barbara, CA
Not sure if this has anything to do with anything but I have noticed a lot of the driver side inflators are very rusty. These would be the ones I am packing up to ship back, or in Mazda's case, put on a pallet waiting until we can get to 200.


2014 Ford Mustang GT Track Pack
1995 Ford Mustang GT

Ford/Mazda Parts Counter
NRA Benefactor Member
Opinions expressed are my own.
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