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Ethanol Free 93 at Murphy USA (Walmart) #4467192
07/22/17 01:56 PM
07/22/17 01:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 435
TN USA
Crispysea Offline OP
Crispysea  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 435
TN USA
I hadn't been to the local Walmart in a long time. I stopped there for gas the other day, and there was a pump that said "Non Ethanol 93". It was only $2.49 compared to local places that sell 87 octane E0 for $2.99. I tried it in my chainsaw, and it's the real
thing. Has anyone else seen it at Murphy USA?

Re: Ethanol Free 93 at Murphy USA (Walmart) [Re: Crispysea] #4467198
07/22/17 02:11 PM
07/22/17 02:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 142
stl
pb Offline
pb  Offline
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 142
stl
check out pure-gas.org

Re: Ethanol Free 93 at Murphy USA (Walmart) [Re: Crispysea] #4467222
07/22/17 02:50 PM
07/22/17 02:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,209
Texas
JustinH Offline
JustinH  Offline
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,209
Texas
Nope not at the ones in central Texas.

I can not find e0 anywhere.


'11 Hyundai Sonata GLS
'11 Scion XB
Re: Ethanol Free 93 at Murphy USA (Walmart) [Re: Crispysea] #4467224
07/22/17 02:56 PM
07/22/17 02:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,767
The Midwest
skyactiv Offline
skyactiv  Offline
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,767
The Midwest
Is the station near a popular boating destination?


Wife: 15' Audi A4 quattro 6 speed manual
Me: 13' VW GTI 3 door 6 speed manual
Re: Ethanol Free 93 at Murphy USA (Walmart) [Re: JustinH] #4467233
07/22/17 03:14 PM
07/22/17 03:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,238
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,238
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: JustinH
Nope not at the ones in central Texas.
I can not find e0 anywhere.


Walmart on Franklin Ave & New Road in Waco, TX has 87 octane E-0 (it's $0.30 a gallon more than E-10)


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Ethanol Free 93 at Murphy USA (Walmart) [Re: skyactiv] #4467264
07/22/17 04:40 PM
07/22/17 04:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 435
TN USA
Crispysea Offline OP
Crispysea  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 435
TN USA
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
Is the station near a popular boating destination?


There are two manmade lakes nearby, but those have E0 stations at their marinas. I don't think they carry 93 octane anyway.

Re: Ethanol Free 93 at Murphy USA (Walmart) [Re: Crispysea] #4467278
07/22/17 04:56 PM
07/22/17 04:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,968
IL
Vern_in_IL Offline
Vern_in_IL  Offline
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,968
IL
Ethanol free 93??? I DON'T THINK SO!!

If it was ethanol free, it should read 91 (add the corn to raise it to 93)

Re: Ethanol Free 93 at Murphy USA (Walmart) [Re: Crispysea] #4467291
07/22/17 05:14 PM
07/22/17 05:14 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,208
Midwest USA
LoneRanger Offline
LoneRanger  Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,208
Midwest USA
The CountryMark stations around here that sell E0 have it marked 91.



'09 Subaru Forester ...................(QS HM 5W30)
'16 Moto Guzzi Stelvio 1200 .....(ENI i-Ride PG 10W60)
Re: Ethanol Free 93 at Murphy USA (Walmart) [Re: Vern_in_IL] #4467322
07/22/17 05:43 PM
07/22/17 05:43 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,650
SF Bay Area
y_p_w Offline
y_p_w  Offline
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,650
SF Bay Area
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Ethanol free 93??? I DON'T THINK SO!!

If it was ethanol free, it should read 91 (add the corn to raise it to 93)

Not necessarily. Depending on the local/regional demand for "premium" it's possible to divert enough of the higher octane "streams" to sell just 93 AKI fuel without ethanol. You can ask Nyogtha about how blending is done, and I'm pretty sure the answer is that it's a math exercise in blending all this stuff to meet various demands for different types of gasoline as well as meeting all regulatory requirements.

It might even be possible in California, but what the heck do they do with all the fuel that's left over? One of the uses for higher octane base fuel is to bring up the octane rating of lower octane fuel via blending. There's very little that can be done with fuel that can't be blended with ethanol or higher octane gasoline to make at least 87 AKI unleaded. I think it might be useful as Coleman-style camp fuel, but how much demand is there for that? Having left over, unsaleable fuel is a nightmare.

There's 92/93 AKI power equipment fuel that contains no ethanol. It costs a bunch though.

http://trufuel50.com/product-info/4-cycle/

Re: Ethanol Free 93 at Murphy USA (Walmart) [Re: Vern_in_IL] #4467345
07/22/17 06:16 PM
07/22/17 06:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,410
San Antonio, TX
Nyogtha Offline
Nyogtha  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,410
San Antonio, TX
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Ethanol free 93??? I DON'T THINK SO!!

If it was ethanol free, it should read 91 (add the corn to raise it to 93)


I was blending ethanol free 93 (R+M)/2 gasoline in 1991. It was also MTBE and lead free. Otherwise known now as conventional gasoline.

Someone has quite a paradigm.

Last edited by Nyogtha; 07/22/17 06:16 PM.

"No matter how paranoid you are you're not paranoid enough. Tell the truth. Reach as many people as you can with it. That's your weapon." - Susanne Modeski, aka "Holly" to The Lone Gunmen
Re: Ethanol Free 93 at Murphy USA (Walmart) [Re: Nyogtha] #4467364
07/22/17 06:46 PM
07/22/17 06:46 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,650
SF Bay Area
y_p_w Offline
y_p_w  Offline
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,650
SF Bay Area
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Ethanol free 93??? I DON'T THINK SO!!

If it was ethanol free, it should read 91 (add the corn to raise it to 93)


I was blending ethanol free 93 (R+M)/2 gasoline in 1991. It was also MTBE and lead free. Otherwise known now as conventional gasoline.

Someone has quite a paradigm.

I'm pretty sure that these days there's more demand for premium unleaded with even econoboxes specifying 91 octane. Of course ethanol is probably the most effective octane booster available outside of lead.

I remember hearing about the "math exercise" in this article (or at least the original version which seems to have disappeared from the internet). It probably oversimplifies things, but it simplifies things enough to get why you can't just make as much 93 octane nonethanol unleaded as you want.

Quote:
http://www.smokinvette.com/corvetteforum....html#post20329

You see, when crude oil is refined into gasoline, the refinery doesn't have all that much control over what comes out. Crude oil is full of all kinds of stuff, and a refinery simply separates it, sorting all the iso-this and hepta-that in order of density. The really heavy stuff, like tar, is near the bottom, while the really light stuff, like butane, is near the top.

Somewhere in the upper ranges of the stack are the components of gasoline. There are between 10 and 15 different blend stocks, each with a different octane rating, which are mixed together to make gasoline.

The crude oil being used and little else determine the amount of each blend stock available for mixing. Generally, if you just dump all the blend stocks into a bucket, you end up with something around 88 or 89 octane. If you're selective and only mix the good stuff, you can make 92, 93 or even 95 octane. But once you take out the good stuff, you're left with [censored]--something like 85 octane. Then you have to leave enough good stuff in the bucket to bring this pee-water up to at least 87 octane. This limits the amount of 95-octane gas you can make. If you make 93-octane premium instead, you use up less of the high-octane stocks, allowing you to make a higher proportion of premium fuel.

In the Midwest, where an extensive customer base of good old boys in pickup trucks consume vast quantities of 87 octane, demand for premium fuel is low enough to make genuine high-octane premium.

Re: Ethanol Free 93 at Murphy USA (Walmart) [Re: Crispysea] #4467410
07/22/17 07:24 PM
07/22/17 07:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,410
San Antonio, TX
Nyogtha Offline
Nyogtha  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,410
San Antonio, TX
Eh, kinda. The two refinery units that really provide high octane low vapor pressure gasoline blending components are the reformer (converts parrafins & naphthenes to aromatics) and alkylation (combines isobutane with propylene and butylene to make highly branched heptane & octane isomers).

The reformer is a very energy intensive unit with a volume loss as the liquid products are more dense than the feed. So there's a double economic penalty from the start. Running higher severity yields higher conversion (higher octane product) at several costs - more energy expended, less volume of product, and more rapid deactivation of the precious metal based catalyst (platinum typically with other metals) which both reduces unit cycle length between regenerations, and each regeneration cycle somewhat itreversibly damages the catalyst porosity lowering its effectiveness. More modern design continuous catalyst regenerayion reformers like UOP'S CCR Platformers and IFP Octanizers help but have limits in continuous coke burning capacity but the irreversible catalyst substrate damage still exists.

Alkylation uses high strength acid as catalyst, either hydrofluoric or sulfuric, which requires some exotic metallurgies and in the case of sulfuric acid technology, refrigeration which is the most expensive BTU in the refinery. Acid release detection and mitigation equipment is quite costly as well. There's minimum amount of octane adjustment here by maximizing the butylenes in the feed; some units at refineries designed to specifically export propylene as a petrochemical have extremely little capacity for alkylating propylene anyway.

Colder months allow a higher proportion of high octane higher vapor pressure components like isopentane and normal butane in gasoline bkending.

In Waco, it's likely the 93 octane E0 comes from the same refinery I worked at from 1990 - 2000. An aromatics extraction plant was comissioned a few years before I left but economics can favor using seperated toluene or mixed xylenes back into gasoline blending. Premium 93 octane E0 with no MTBE or other oxygenate was still being blended there when I left. But I was the first to so do at that facility back in 1991.

The biggest issue is balance. Sometimes I'd receive no less than 3 pipeline schedules the same day from Corporate Marketing, each with different size batches at different times on the schedule, and if I told them I was getting stretched on high octane components they always increased premium demand - frustrating. There's only so much tankage for surge and having to cut refinrry total feed rate due to marketing imbalance gets attention at high levels. At HQ a refinery is just a troublesome "black box" to the majority of employees - most never even visit a refinery in their careers, much less work at one.


"No matter how paranoid you are you're not paranoid enough. Tell the truth. Reach as many people as you can with it. That's your weapon." - Susanne Modeski, aka "Holly" to The Lone Gunmen
Re: Ethanol Free 93 at Murphy USA (Walmart) [Re: Crispysea] #4467466
07/22/17 08:22 PM
07/22/17 08:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 435
TN USA
Crispysea Offline OP
Crispysea  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 435
TN USA
They didn't have much. It was on only one pump out of fifteen. They'd just upgraded to new pumps and it was the only one that didn't say "all grades contain ethanol". It smells sweet like pure gasoline, not sour like E10 or E85. I dropped some and it evaporated instantly; much faster than 87 octane. I tried it in my Echo saw that recommends premium. It ran better than it ever has!

Re: Ethanol Free 93 at Murphy USA (Walmart) [Re: Crispysea] #4467488
07/22/17 08:54 PM
07/22/17 08:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,861
Connecticut
69GTX Offline
69GTX  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,861
Connecticut
I checked the closest E0 distributor near me (7 miles) which happens to be a lawn service dealer. They want $30.00 per pre-packaged gallon cans, or $10/qt. I'm sure there are cheaper ways.


----------------

2001 Lincoln Cont 4.6L DOHC/ 39K mi / QS HM 5w30 / FUG XG2
1999 Camaro SS M6 /19K /Mobil 1 0w40 /Fram UG /GM MTL-ATF
1969 Ply GTX/RRs
Re: Ethanol Free 93 at Murphy USA (Walmart) [Re: Nyogtha] #4467585
07/22/17 11:03 PM
07/22/17 11:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,238
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,238
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Ethanol free 93??? I DON'T THINK SO!! If it was ethanol free, it should read 91 (add the corn to raise it to 93)


Ethanol-free 93 is VERY common, but comes in 5 gallon cans and isn't cheap. According to pure-gas.org... some pumps have it , but all are over 100 miles from me

Originally Posted By: Nyogtha

In Waco, it's likely the 93 octane E-0 comes from the same refinery I worked at from 1990 - 2000.


It's actually only 87 - - but smells EXACTLY just like AvGas does!!!!


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
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