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2007 Honda Element; 7,189mi; M1 0W20 AFE/EP #4463085
07/18/17 03:54 PM
07/18/17 03:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,950
Chicago, IL
EdwardC Offline OP
EdwardC  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,950
Chicago, IL
Nothing too exciting. I don't think I posted my previous UOA, so the 7/17 and 10/16 changes are new. As you can probably guess, I forgot to collect a sample during one of my changes (January 2016). The 8,259mi run was actually a blend of 1.5qt AFE, 3qt EP (both 0W20) and .5qt Supertech (5W20).

One thing to note, I did swap out the engine air filter half way through the 7,189mi run, which might account for the silicon (not that I'm worried). As of last year, the Element became our only vehicle, so it gets a lot more short trips when my wife commutes, mixed in with longer weekend trip. I do two oil changes per one oil filter interval. I put in 5qts of M1 0W20 EP back in. I'm trying to extend my intervals, but I usually just change it when time permits.

Code:
2007 Honda Element

Date of Change:		7/17	10/16 	4/15	5/14
Miles on Unit: 		111,056	103,867	86,415	78,226
Miles on Oil:		7,189	8,259	8,189	6,037
Oil Brand:		M1	M1	QS	M1
Oil Type:		AFE	AFE/EP	UD	AFE
Oil Grade:		0w20	0W20	0W20	0W20
Filter Change:		No	Yes	Yes	No

Metals(ppm):
Iron(Fe)		8	6	9	7
Chromium (Cr)		<1	<1	<1	<1
Lead (Pb)		<1	<1	<1	<1
Copper (Cu)		<1	<1	2	1
Tin (Sn)		<1	<1	<1	<1
Aluminum (Al)		3	3	4	5
Nickel (Ni)		<1	<1	<1	<1
Silver (Ag)		<1	<1	<1	<1
Titanium (Ti)		<1	<1	<1	<1
Vanadium (V)		<1	<1	<1	<1

Contaminants (ppm):
Silicon (Si)		14	13	10	10
Sodium (Na)		3	4	8	8
Potassium (K)		<1	<1	<5	<5

Additives (ppm):
Magnesium (Mg)		621	571	162	749
Calcium (Ca)		970	1283	1815	979
Barium (Ba)		<1	<1	<1	<1
Phosphorus (P)		576	658	680	633
Zinc (Zn)		635	730	766	738
Molybedenum (Mo)	72	76	218	72
Boron (B)		41	49	10	46

Contaminants:
Water (%)		<0.05	<0.05	<0.05	<0.05
Coolant			No	No	No	No

Physical Tests:
Viscosity (Cst @ 100C)	7.7	7.1	9.3	7.5
Fuel (%)		<1	<1
Soot (%) Infrared	0.4	<0.1

Physical/Chemical:
Base Number (mgKOH/g)	2.8	3.9	2.6	3.8


Thanks for looking!

Re: 2007 Honda Element; 7,189mi; M1 0W20 AFE/EP [Re: EdwardC] #4464593
07/20/17 05:49 AM
07/20/17 05:49 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,677
WatUpDoc
ltslimjim Offline
ltslimjim  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,677
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Nice report. Has the oil sheared some? The PDS says 8.8 at 100c.

https://www.mobil.com/English-US/Passenger-Vehicle-Lube/pds/GLXXMobil-1-0W20

TBN is still strong for what seems to be a 9 month interval and I'd assume fairly cold weather for a portion of the interval.

Considering the price for AFE and it not being marketed as an extended lube you are doing well. I'd keep monitoring potential for shearing. Not sure if it's the engine or conditions driven. Does it see short trips and several weeks of very cold weather? On the other hand, you'll notice the QSUD started to thicken up a bit pushing a year interval. shrug confused

Otherwise, the reports look good.

Last edited by ltslimjim; 07/20/17 05:51 AM.

92 Civic Hatch (stolen frown RIP)
07 Honda Fit Sport (A/T) WELCOME thumbsup
Re: 2007 Honda Element; 7,189mi; M1 0W20 AFE/EP [Re: EdwardC] #4464763
07/20/17 09:38 AM
07/20/17 09:38 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,117
Virginia
bigt61 Offline
bigt61  Offline
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,117
Virginia
You have some nice trends going. That engine isn't wearing out anytime soon. Ever add any make up oil? Good post.


92 Suburban 2500 7.4L 58k M1_0w40 5yr OCI
99 Olds Aurora 4.0L 91K M1_5w30 5yr OCI
13 Dodge Dart 2.0L 30k PP 0w20 OLM OCI
70 Camaro 5.7L 59k
Re: 2007 Honda Element; 7,189mi; M1 0W20 AFE/EP [Re: EdwardC] #4465171
07/20/17 03:34 PM
07/20/17 03:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,950
Chicago, IL
EdwardC Offline OP
EdwardC  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,950
Chicago, IL
Nope, no make up oil at all. Sometimes, I wish it would use just a little oil so I can top off with some of the snow blower's 0W30 to thicken it up a little, knock on wood. It definitely gets short tripped all year round. However, I don't think it ever goes more than 2 weeks without getting fully up to temperature (I would estimate every week on average).

Yeah, that QSUD was interesting, being as thick as it was at the end of the run. I've been wanting to run that again just to see if it's consistent, but M1 AFE/EP has been cheaper with the rebates. Edit: Wow, I just checked the QSUD data sheets, it had a starting viscosity of 8.3 cSt at 100C!

I'm interested to see the viscosity of the EP. The data sheet says that it's 8.6 cSt at 100C. I'm thinking about putting in a 80%/20% blend of 0W-20/0W-30 AFE to get a thick 0W20 next time. I don't know why, maybe the thick oil guys are rubbing off on me a little, but I want to be on the thicker end of an 20 weight.


Thanks for the comments!

Last edited by EdwardC; 07/20/17 03:48 PM.
Re: 2007 Honda Element; 7,189mi; M1 0W20 AFE/EP [Re: EdwardC] #4465183
07/20/17 03:47 PM
07/20/17 03:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,677
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ltslimjim Offline
ltslimjim  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,677
WatUpDoc
For short-tripping and cold weather I don't see the need in going thicker. Shearing some but it stays in grade. I think you found your sweet spot.

I noticed my BIL started getting AFE 0w-20 to thicken up a bit on his 18k and 21k yearly OCI (Honda Fit in warm weather year round and hardly any short trips) and later it developed oil consumption.

So, some shearing isn't necessarily a bad thing as it stayed in grade (5.6 is the lower min. requirement for 20 grade) and the numbers aren't showing any issues with regards to apparent wear. I'd definitely say the AFE performed better overall compared to the QSUD in terms of thickening vs shearing. I'd rather an oil shear some than thicken up as long as I'm not at a track.


92 Civic Hatch (stolen frown RIP)
07 Honda Fit Sport (A/T) WELCOME thumbsup
Re: 2007 Honda Element; 7,189mi; M1 0W20 AFE/EP [Re: ltslimjim] #4465200
07/20/17 04:02 PM
07/20/17 04:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,950
Chicago, IL
EdwardC Offline OP
EdwardC  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,950
Chicago, IL
Wow, 18k and 21k, do you remember the TBN at the end of that?

Re: 2007 Honda Element; 7,189mi; M1 0W20 AFE/EP [Re: EdwardC] #4465690
07/21/17 12:19 AM
07/21/17 12:19 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,677
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ltslimjim Offline
ltslimjim  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,677
WatUpDoc
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3563224/
2.1 TBN at 21k

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3134924/

2.4 TBN at 17k (correction not 18k)

He added oil within the last couple thousand miles of each report. As noted, he began using oil at some point after extending his interval out far. So, he either let it get slightly low without topping off and also could have cut the interval short. So, in my usage I'm capping AFE 0w-20 to 15k on my Fit. Maybe if I had a bypass system...

Again, he drove lots of fairly long trips and highway miles. If he were driving in your conditions like this app in the OP shows, it's doubtful that the oil makes it out appearing as good. Note the insols started ticking up as well in the 21k mile report. So, perhaps the 17k run was the sweet spot. Also, the 21k mile longer run yielded higher viscosity numbers than the previous 17k run. As I later mentioned to him reading his report and giving feedback: The oil seemed to be thickening slightly, it shears down to a point over extended use and then thickens up again after becoming overloaded with suspending combustion byproducts/deposit removal or dispersant. Therefore, in theory a bypass system makes this repeatable without leading to functional problems developing, such as perhaps oil control rings becoming stuck from varnishing, etc.


92 Civic Hatch (stolen frown RIP)
07 Honda Fit Sport (A/T) WELCOME thumbsup
Re: 2007 Honda Element; 7,189mi; M1 0W20 AFE/EP [Re: EdwardC] #4466018
07/21/17 09:45 AM
07/21/17 09:45 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,950
Chicago, IL
EdwardC Offline OP
EdwardC  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,950
Chicago, IL
Wow, thanks Itslimjim!

My plan for the current OCI is to run the Maintenance Minder down to 15% twice. The MM seems to do an OK job of accounting for driving and environmental factors. As in, the summer I did a lot of highway miles the MM went to 0% at about 7,500mi, then the winter before, mostly short trips and very cold temps, it went to 0% closer to 6,000mi. Running down to 15% twice should get me in the 10k-13k range, right where I think I want to be (especially since I'm running EP now).

Re: 2007 Honda Element; 7,189mi; M1 0W20 AFE/EP [Re: EdwardC] #4466401
07/21/17 03:50 PM
07/21/17 03:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,677
WatUpDoc
ltslimjim Offline
ltslimjim  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,677
WatUpDoc
Your goal sounds reasonable. I'd caution going as long as your QSUD run, but 10 months or 10k is a nice goal of extending the AFE compared to your results here. I'd just watch out for thickening like the QSUD run seemed to do at 11 months despite only 8k. Could likely be the short trips/cold weather service.


92 Civic Hatch (stolen frown RIP)
07 Honda Fit Sport (A/T) WELCOME thumbsup

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