dexos1 Gen 2 oils

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Originally Posted By: SR5
It looks to me like ILSAC and Dexos oils are becoming mid-SAPS oils

Maybe a formulator could better enlighten us, but I seem to recall things jumping around a bit when SM/GF-4 evolved and as SN/GF-5 came in and matured. We had all kinds of concerns about low TBN oils, for instance, and then things started to climb back up. Much the same happened with some of the HDEOs at the time, but higher TBN E7, E9 types became readily available.

It's too bad Imperial Oil's site evolved. I'd be able to show some of those numbers on both the PCMO and HDEO side, since they used to keep old data sheets online. Maybe the Shell site might have something useful, since they do have a few older data sheets available, if you look hard enough. If I recall, Petro-Canada tended to publish the SA levels of their PCMOs, too.
 
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
Is LSPI prevention a concern even for non - turbo gas DI engines ?


I am certain that I have observed LSPI in the DI LFX V6 engine in my '14 Camaro.
This V6 has 11.5 to 1 compression ratio, no turbo.

There are events that have been captured on a Dash Hawk data logger that show massive knock retard accompanied by engine roughness and audible knocking from the engine bay.
No diagnostic codes were set, the events were brief.
This happened once while at light throttle motoring slowly through a parking lot.

No damage has been detected so far.

For me LSPI is a real concern, anything that improves the LSPI situation is welcomed by me.
 
Just to clarify DEXOS 1 Gen 2 is not the same as Gen 1. It has a new formulation for a reason. The main reason for the new formulation is due to LSPI events in DIT applications. It is SPECIFICALLY made to protect against those events. It, for one, has a massive reduction in Calcium due to the correlation between LSPI events and high content Calcium oils; there are other changes obviously, but that is that largest change. It doesn't mean you can't have LSPI events, simply put that the chances are less. With DIT engines, LSPI is an occurrence that ALL manufacturers struggle with. Using a previous DEXOS rating, or other manufacturer rating in DIT engines would be strongly recommended against imo. I would switch to DEXOS 1 Gen2 next oil change for any DIT engines. https://www.oronite.com/products/lspi.asp
 
So, the only GM car I have is a '15 Volt. It has a 1.4 liter, non-turbo, multi-port fuel-injected engine. Since it's neither direct-injected nor turbocharged, I assume that I can use whatever Dexos1 oil I wish (meaning I can use up my stash of NAPA 5W30 Synthetic, and Pennzoil Ultra 5W30).

Is this correct? Or do I get to ^h^h^h^h^h^h have to go out and buy more oil?
 
Short answer. Yes. The Volt uses the engine as a generator, it doesn't drive the wheels unlike the Prius which uses its engine in parallel. This has an advantage in engine longevity because it really sees almost no real stress or strain, so I would not worry at all about oil type or choice. Stick with whatever is recommended in your manual. LSPI only applies to DIT engines which yours is not, nor would it see LSPI if it was due to the lack of loading on the engine.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: dirty_projection
Short answer. Yes. The Volt uses the engine as a generator, it doesn't drive the wheels unlike the Prius which uses its engine in parallel. This has an advantage in engine longevity because it really sees almost no real stress or strain, so I would not worry at all about oil type or choice. Stick with whatever is recommended in your manual. LSPI only applies to DIT engines which yours is not, nor would it see LSPI if it was due to the lack of loading on the engine.
It can power the wheels somewhat:

"The Chevy Volt’s Voltec powertrain might not be as special as we’ve been led to believe. Then again, maybe it’s even more so.

After several initial reports about the car’s electric drive/hybrid system GM has issued a press release to clarify exactly how it works, stating that specifics were never given in the past as the automaker awaited patent approvals. After some initial tests by and interviews with a few of the auto industry’s buff books, it was recently revealed that contrary to all past claims by GM, the Voltec system is not a pure extended-range electric vehicle (ER-EV), but that under certain circumstances the 1.4-liter gasoline engine can actually power the wheels. In that sense, the Volt seems like little more than a plug-in Prius (parallel hybrid) with a larger and more powerful battery and electric motor.

That, however, is not entirely true either, as GM says the gasoline engine still cannot power the electric wheels on its own. In fact the gasoline engine can power the wheels, but only in addition to the electric motor powering the wheels and only under certain circumstances. One example GM gives is during certain types of extended-range driving (once the initial plug-in power has been depleted) the gasoline engine feeds a small amount of power to the wheels. “The resulting power flow provides a 10 to 15 percent improvement in highway fuel economy.”

What this all means is that the Volt first operates as an electric vehicle, and then it switches to be both a series hybrid (extended range electric vehicle) and a parallel hybrid (like the Prius) depending on the type of driving.

A pure electric vehicle it might not be in the strictest sense of the word, but a technological innovation it most certainly still is."
 
From 853 (gen 1), to 73 (gen 2) licensed oils.

The Pennzoil Gold 5w-30 is $17.47/5qts. on the shelf at Walmart; heck of a good value.
 
Dumb question I'm sure....But, are these oils already out and available? I noticed that, for my truck, there is only 1 oil in 5w20 and that's from Pennzoil that has the Dex 1 Gen 2 approval. Would GM leave my truck alone and let it be Dex 1 Gen 1 only?

Truck is a 2017 GMC Canyon 2.5l
 
Interesting. M1 5w30 EP is not on the list. M1's website says their new AP is the #1, and EP is the #2, for my Dad's LF3 twin-turbo, DI 3.6L V6. Is LSPI not an issue with this engine? 10.2:1 CR, twin-turbos, and DI.
 
Originally Posted By: volk06
Valvoline stated that only full synthetics are going to make the cut for gen2 DEXOS1


Good to know, they have until Sept 2017 to get on the list.
 
Originally Posted By: dirty_projection
Just to clarify DEXOS 1 Gen 2 is not the same as Gen 1. It has a new formulation for a reason. The main reason for the new formulation is due to LSPI events in DIT applications. It is SPECIFICALLY made to protect against those events. It, for one, has a massive reduction in Calcium due to the correlation between LSPI events and high content Calcium oils; there are other changes obviously, but that is that largest change. It doesn't mean you can't have LSPI events, simply put that the chances are less. With DIT engines, LSPI is an occurrence that ALL manufacturers struggle with. Using a previous DEXOS rating, or other manufacturer rating in DIT engines would be strongly recommended against imo. I would switch to DEXOS 1 Gen2 next oil change for any DIT engines. https://www.oronite.com/products/lspi.asp


That's a very informative link!
 
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: gabriel9766
So does tht effect the oil i should use on my 15 Malibu?

Absolutely. As you know, the Gen III Ecotec is direct injection.

As aforementioned by Virtus_Probi, the new dexos specification incorporates a stochastic pre-ignition (SPI) test; here's some reading on the issue:
http://www.infineuminsight.com/insight/may-2015/investigating-low-speed-pre-ignition
http://www.infineuminsight.com/insight/apr-2016/controlling-low-speed-pre-ignition
http://www.infineuminsight.com/insight/feb-2017/identifying-low-speed-pre-ignition-events


Those are some interesting articles from Infineum.
Here is another from the same website that discusses different additives' effect on LSPI.
A very interesting point is that zddp is an effective quencher of LSPI.
http://www.infineuminsight.com/insight/nov-2016/quenching-low-speed-pre-ignition
 
Another interesting connection that Oronite and others have pointed out is that MoDTC is also a good LSPI quencher.
To put it in simplistic terms for LSPI, seems like calcium and sodium are bad, zinc and (soluble) moly are good, and magnesium is a don't care...except that magnesium-based detergents can allow oil formulators to cut calcium levels and still maintain a good TBN.
Still, it is only testing that really matters, which is why I am excited about dexos1 Gen 2 and GF6 (which has an LSPI test in a Ford Ecoboost). I just wish that the dexos1 logo was changing for Gen 2 so I could be sure an oil has passed the new testing...
 
What I find interesting, is that there are AC Delco Dexos1 oils on the list, and also AC Delco Full Synthetic oils on the list. Would give the impression that the oils listed as AC Delco Dexos1 could be a syn blend, differentiating them from the AC Delco Full Synthetic versions. Else, why list AC Delco in the same viscosity in several different locations? There are at least 5 different AC Delco varieties on that list. No indication that they are all full syn. it is as if GM cannot get even the oils under their own branding figured out.

More and more I am thankful that I do not suffer from an enlarged paranoia gland and worry about this nonsense. None of my GM vehicles gets a oil that is on an "approved" list. But there is one good point to this... it makes it easier to determine in the future to avoid GM the next time I need to shop for a vehicle.
 
Originally Posted By: geekster
Dumb question I'm sure....But, are these oils already out and available? I noticed that, for my truck, there is only 1 oil in 5w20 and that's from Pennzoil that has the Dex 1 Gen 2 approval. Would GM leave my truck alone and let it be Dex 1 Gen 1 only?

Truck is a 2017 GMC Canyon 2.5l


You can use 0w20 in that engine. I wouldn't worry too much about gen 1 vs 2 as those changes apply to DIT engines which yours is not. TURBO applications will benefit from gen 2 the most. N/A doesn't have issues with LSPI.
 
I sent a note off to Valvoline product support asking when their Valvoline Synpower Dexos1 Gen2 product would hit the shelves at retailers and the following was their reply.


"Valvoline is releasing a new product called "Valvoline Full Synthetic" that is GM Dexos 1 Generation 2 licensed. Although we have not announced an official release date for this product, it will be available before the September 1st, 2017 date which General Motors plans to release Dexos 1 Generation 2. We are also currently in the process of obtaining this approval for additional Valvoline products, however this is not the case with Valvoline SynPower motor oil."

Interesting implications to say the least....
 
Originally Posted By: smithph
I sent a note off to Valvoline product support asking when their Valvoline Synpower Dexos1 Gen2 product would hit the shelves at retailers and the following was their reply.


"Valvoline is releasing a new product called "Valvoline Full Synthetic" that is GM Dexos 1 Generation 2 licensed. Although we have not announced an official release date for this product, it will be available before the September 1st, 2017 date which General Motors plans to release Dexos 1 Generation 2. We are also currently in the process of obtaining this approval for additional Valvoline products, however this is not the case with Valvoline SynPower motor oil."

Interesting implications to say the least....


The oils in the Synpower line that I have looked at used a pretty good dose of calcium along with some sodium (I'd assume in detergents), and one of the additive makers claimed that sodium in the presence of calcium was a strong LSPI accelerator. Sounds to me like Valvoline doesn't want to make radical changes to Synpower and possibly lose an established customer base, but I'd think it would be hard for them to deal with the distribution and shelf space issues that would likely be associated with the mass retail introduction of a whole new synthetic oil line.
I doubt that all that many DIT owners are going to be aware of the whole LSPI/Gen 2 issue, anyway, maybe the new line will be online only or in limited distribution?
 
Originally Posted By: gabriel9766
So does tht effect the oil i should use on my 15 Malibu?


The new dexos 1 from AC Delco is a full syn compared to a blend before. I am interested to see if any oils will lose their cert because of the new criteria for approval
 
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