New Rem 870

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Camprunner

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So I decided I wanted a shotgun for things that go bump in the night but I did not want to spend an arm and a leg so after extensive reading I went with a Remington 870 Express Tactical model from ***** sporting goods. It is basic with a six shot one piece mag tube so 6+1 and it was on sale for $379.00

My thoughts ... It's not my grandfathers 870! .. The fit and finish is not even close but it seems to run fine the action is tight when you rack it but it is getting looser as it wears in. From what I read there are some mods that one should do to the 870 Express models. For one Rem does not take time to polish the chamber like they did years ago so this is a must for improved extraction not too difficult. Her is a list of the mods I will do.

Polish chamber
Replace MIM extractor with higher quality Rem machined extractor to improve ejection and reliability
Replace carrier dog spring with police 870 stronger spring to improve feeding
New better mag tube spring with aftermarket follower
Replace small factory Rem safety with larger aftermarket safety
There was some other spring I was going to replace but I can't recall what it is at the moment.

There are some people who say it is a good idea to replace the Rem 870 Express plastic factory trigger guard and upgrade to the police model metal trigger guard but no one can show me where any of the plastic guards have failed and besides you don't see too many Glocks failing!

Although my mods are cheep overall I do find it annoying that the following mods are pretty much required to make sure the gun is reliable. They just don't build them like they use too!
 
Do the parts interchange with older 870s? Just curious.

We worry about this stuff and replacing MIM with machined is never a bad thing, but the truth is if you have to defend yourself the gun has to run for 7 shots and most likely less. Maybe load it up and empty it hard a few times, see how it feels to you. Are these proven failure-prone parts or is it internet expert babble?

My 81 Wingmaster got an 18" Mossberg barrel and Hogue stocks and is ready to defend the homestead.
 
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Do the parts interchange with older 870s? Just curious.

We worry about this stuff and replacing MIM with machined is never a bad thing, but the truth is if you have to defend yourself the gun has to run for 7 shots and most likely less. Maybe load it up and empty it hard a few times, see how it feels to you. Are these proven failure-prone parts or is it internet expert babble?

My 81 Wingmaster got an 18" Mossberg barrel and Hogue stocks and is ready to defend the homestead.


From what I read the extraction issues with new 870's is due to the rough chamber and the MIM extractor. I think I am just going to polish the chamber then shoot the heck out of it and see how it goes before I replace the extractor. Many say the stronger police non MIM extractor is much stronger although I can't find anyone who has managed to brake a MIM extractor so I am sure it is strong enough.
 
$380 sounds like quite a bit with all the cheaper parts they're using now. I saw a table full of 870 police trade-ins for $180 just a few years back.
 
Remington probably needed to cut corners to meet a price point. My Stevens 320 is rough, but runs 100% maybe Remington thought the same.

Look into aguila mini shells, if they feed reliability you can go from 6 to 10-11 shells.

The kel-tec ksg can have almost 30 shells that way
 
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
So I decided I wanted a shotgun for things that go bump in the night but I did not want to spend an arm and a leg so after extensive reading I went with a Remington 870 Express Tactical model from ***** sporting goods. It is basic with a six shot one piece mag tube so 6+1 and it was on sale for $379.00

My thoughts ... It's not my grandfathers 870! .. The fit and finish is not even close but it seems to run fine the action is tight when you rack it but it is getting looser as it wears in. From what I read there are some mods that one should do to the 870 Express models. For one Rem does not take time to polish the chamber like they did years ago so this is a must for improved extraction not too difficult. Her is a list of the mods I will do.

Polish chamber
Replace MIM extractor with higher quality Rem machined extractor to improve ejection and reliability
Replace carrier dog spring with police 870 stronger spring to improve feeding
New better mag tube spring with aftermarket follower
Replace small factory Rem safety with larger aftermarket safety
There was some other spring I was going to replace but I can't recall what it is at the moment.

There are some people who say it is a good idea to replace the Rem 870 Express plastic factory trigger guard and upgrade to the police model metal trigger guard but no one can show me where any of the plastic guards have failed and besides you don't see too many Glocks failing!

Although my mods are cheep overall I do find it annoying that the following mods are pretty much required to make sure the gun is reliable. They just don't build them like they use too!


Not for that reduced price no. They do still, "build them like they used to", but you have to be prepared to pay more than you will for the cheaper, entry level "Express Model". If you're going to go through all of the parts replacement and extra gunsmithing work your talking about, it's most likely going to wind up costing you more. And in the process you're going to end up with a pieced together, warranty less, reworked abortion when you're all finished. And many features on the Police are not "do it yourself" add on parts.

For less than $300.00 more you could have simply went with a standard grade of the 870 Police, and had everything you require right out of the box. All in a factory assembled and warrantied gun. The 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.

http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/docview...p;docid=3347012

• All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY.
This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the
same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.

• All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure
top quality and functionality.

• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer
magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.

• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5
and 8 lbs.

• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it
will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive
feeding when using heavier payload rounds.

• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking
mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism
can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the
appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.

• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police
shotgun vehicle racks.

• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.

• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without
physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.

• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize
either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.

• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a
compressed metal housing.

• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction
with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock
down as used on the Express system.

• The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes
and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.

• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal
cast which are utilized on the Express models.

Now..... When you factor in all of that, you would have been WAY AHEAD in both quality and money by simply purchasing an 870 Police Model. I'm just not seeing anything economically advantageous here.
 
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=535100315

Forget $300 more. I stand corrected. Here is a brand new Remington 870 Police Model, in the box with all of the factory papers, for just $549.00. That's only $170.00 more than what you paid for a gun that you will have to extensively modify in order to improve the quality, which when you're all done, still will not be at the level of the Police Model. There are many more at or near the same price, differently configured with any features you could possibly desire in a self defense / combat shotgun.

To each his own, but I'm just not seeing the advantage here. Especially when you add up the cost of all of the parts you're going to have to purchase, along with shipping. I won't even include time involved, and or "kitchen table" gunsmith work.
 
My son bought one. It has a tendency to misfeed if the breech is not parallel to the ground. I hate the thing. You get what you pay for. I have 2 Model 12's. No comparison.

I am not a Winchester fanboy.
 
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I've read various places that an 870 Express isn't even what an 870 Express used to be, let alone a Wingmaster or better model. I think Remington used to be a notch or two higher than Mossberg in terms of price, but they've gotten the Express down to about the same street price as a 500.

I hear the 870, regardless of "trim level" typically cycles really smooth. The Mossberg has that "loose fit" feel to the slide action. I do like the Mossberg's dual extractors and top-mounted safety, though. I have a 500 12 ga, but am looking for a 20 gauge to probably replace it. Looking at both Mossberg and Remington.

I like the style of the Stevens shotguns (the 7 round ones), but I can't bring myself to own a Chinese shotgun, regardless of how good it might be. And, by most accounts, it's a very good shotgun.
 
Originally Posted By: Al
My son bought one. It has a tendency to misfeed if the breech is not parallel to the ground. I hate the thing. You get what you pay for.


This is so very true. Especially today. Some time ago I was "lured in" by price. I purchased a Mossberg 500 "Combo Gun" that was on sale from Big 5 Sporting Goods, (a sporting goods chain store here in the Phoenix metro area). At the time I paid $204.00 out the door. A pretty good deal considering the gun came with 2 barrels. A 28" Ventilated Rib barrel with a Modified Choke. And a 18" Cylinder Barrel. It's the lower gun in the picture.

The action was really stiff. The first thing I did with it was lube the he!! out of it, and run a case of shells, (250), through it. I shot about 125 rounds through each of the two barrels. The gun functioned fine, and by the time I was finished, it was noticeably slicker and smoother.

Some time later I purchased a Mossberg 590 A-1 Mil-Spec shotgun. (It's the gun at the top). While this gun was over double the price, ($488.74), there is absolutely zero comparison in the quality. I could go on and on listing the differences, but it all revolves around getting what you pay for. You could say the 500 "Combo Gun" was the better buy. But the 590 A-1 was by far the better gun. It taught me a lesson. Buy once, cry once. I'll save money elsewhere.

 
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
Polish chamber


Yes. Use some 00 steel wool on a 12 gauge chamber brush. Chock it up in a drill and use some oil. Chamber will be super smooth after a short time.

Originally Posted By: Camprunner
Replace MIM extractor with higher quality Rem machined extractor to improve ejection and reliability


Yes the machined extractor is a good upgrade. $17 from Brownells (part F16176) and much more durable than the MIM extractor. The MIM extractor doesn't have near the durability of the machined one. It's a good upgrade.

Originally Posted By: Camprunner
Replace carrier dog spring with police 870 stronger spring to improve feeding


Yes the 870P / 1100 carrier dog spring is a must have upgrade in my opinion. Its part number F16966 and is $6 at Brownells.


Originally Posted By: Camprunner
New better mag tube spring with aftermarket follower


Yep also a good upgrade. I use the Wolff XP spring (969-000-155), $4 from Brownells. Its comes extra long and you cut it to length. Another option I like is the S&J Hardware delrin follower and spring, which is $20.


Originally Posted By: Camprunner
Replace small factory Rem safety with larger aftermarket safety


Another great upgrade. I have used the Scattergun Technologies, Vang, and S&J Hardware big button safeties. I much prefer the Scattergun Technologies one as the other ones are too large in my opinion. Its only $16 at Brownells.

Originally Posted By: Camprunner
There are some people who say it is a good idea to replace the Rem 870 Express plastic factory trigger guard and upgrade to the police model metal trigger guard but no one can show me where any of the plastic guards have failed and besides you don't see too many Glocks failing!


The Police model hasn't come with a metal trigger guard for almost 10 years now. They use the polymer trigger guard as well, which is a good thing as it is actually more durable than the metal one.

I'm an 870 armorer and have rebuilt a ton of these guns. You have chosen the usual, smart and prudent modifications for this platform. And contrary to popular belief, the 870 express and 870 police magnum use the same exact receiver. The only difference is the parkerized finish and the stampings on the side. The police gun IS NOT worth the extra $200-400 and is not a substantially better gun. The upgrades are only $30-$50 or so and are easy to install. Go for it.

The Police model uses a heavier sear spring which just increases the trigger pull from about 5 lbs to 8 lbs. The factory sear spring is fine and I wouldn't bother changing it out unless you like a heavier trigger pull. The heavier spring doesn't increase reliability.
 
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
The Police model hasn't come with a metal trigger guard for almost 10 years now. They use the polymer trigger guard as well, which is a good thing as it is actually more durable than the metal one.


870P - F102203
Express - F112040

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
And contrary to popular belief, the 870 express and 870 police magnum use the same exact receiver.


According to Remington, "the receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing."
 
http://www.rem870.com/2012/07/30/10-steps-to-upgrade-your-remington-870-express-to-police-version/

And now the cost:

1.) 870 Express $379.00.

2.) 870-P Magazine Spring ($7.55).

http://www.brownells.com/magazines/shotg...k-_-Custom+Link

3.) 870-P Sear Spring ($7.99).

http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/t...0670-27099.aspx

4.) 870-P Carrier Dog Spring ($6.99).

http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/t...0763-27211.aspx

5.) 870-P Forend ($26.99).

http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/s...k-_-Custom+Link

6.) 870-P Speedfeed Stock ($99.99).

http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/s...k-_-Custom+Link

7.) 870-P Magazine Extension..... (Currently not available. So you'll save a few bucks there).

8.) 870-P Police METAL Trigger Group ($116.99)

http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/t...-prod26466.aspx

9.) 870-P Milled Steel Extractor ($17.99)

http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/e...k-_-Custom+Link

10.) Refinish to 870-P specifications ($??.??) Cost varies so we'll eliminate it along with the magazine extension for now.

.................................................................

So.... Starting with your base $379.00 Remington 870 Express, then adding up all of the improvements you'll need, (minus the parkerized finish and the magazine extension), you're up to a grand total of $663.49 not adding any labor or gunsmith work. In order to attempt to make a 870 Express into what amounts to a new Police Model you could simply remove from the box and enjoy, with a full factory warranty.

Considering the original Remington 870 Police Model I listed sells new in the boxfor just $549.00, you're spending $114.49 MORE for a bunch of parts that have to be installed into what amounts to a reworked gun. Even if you eliminate the Speedfeed stock, ($100.00), you're still almost $15.00 over the budget of what a brand new 870 Police Model would cost you. I'd call that a lot of things, but economically viable sure as he!! isn't one of them.
 
Actually the auction you listed had a starting price of $499 with a BIN of $549...so $499 + $30 shipping + FFL fee in your hands. The $549 price is probably $600 in your hands. Your calcs still work even adding in necessary costs.

The OP bought an inexpensive shotgun and will basically do an inexpensive reliability fluff & buff on it. How would replacing some springs and the extractor and polishing the chamber up a little void the factory warranty?
 
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
870P - F102203
Express - F112040


Those are identical trigger groups with the difference being the heavier carrier dog spring and heavier sear spring. I already advised the OP that all he has to change is the carrier dog spring for $6. No need to buy an identical polymer trigger group.
 
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Actually the auction you listed had a starting price of $499 with a BIN of $549...so $499 + $30 shipping + FFL fee in your hands. The $549 price is probably $600 in your hands. Your calcs still work even adding in necessary costs.

The OP bought an inexpensive shotgun and will basically do an inexpensive reliability fluff & buff on it. How would replacing some springs and the extractor and polishing the chamber up a little void the factory warranty?


If that's all he did it most likely wouldn't. If he actually wanted to make all the necessary upgrades and changes to transform it into a 870 Police, it would involve replacing a lot of parts. If all that work generated operational problems, it could cause warranty issues. I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time Remington received an 870 that had been bubba'ed in such a way.
 
Nothing wrong with doing a few simple and cheap upgrades. I would shoot it a little first to make sure it runs fine before doing anything.
 
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