Go For Windows 7 or Windows 8.1?

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4

While I will agree with your thoughts (I have used 3 versions of Linux and like Zorin the best), the fact is until the Office Suites for Linux are FULLY compatible with MS Office, Linux will continue to flounder in that area. I have tried every version of Linux Office that I could find (Libre, Open, Star, KingSoft) and while they work very well on "original" documents, they tend to destroy documents which were created in MS Office. In addition, the spreadsheet program with most of them is in no way as powerful as Excel. I fully understand the "free" part, but sometimes you get what you pay for. I cannot imagine my company switching to Linux and "free" Office even though we would save millions out of the box, simply due to the overall lack of compatibility and support. Do not misunderstand, I like Linux and learn a bit more about it everyday, but (at least at the current time), I think it is far fetched to believe that Linux will become the OS of choice.

You think Microsoft may have something to do with those compatibility issues? It's certainly not in their best interest to make products that play well with other's products if they don't have to.

 

[ZeeOSix]

So Dell is charging $50 extra for the same exact computer system with Win 7 Home Premium loaded vs Win 8.1 loaded on the machine. If that's the case, I might as well get 8.1 and for $5 get Start8 to make it look more like Win 7.

I do not want to use Win 8.1 in touch screen mode, so I'm assuming it can be set to not be in touch screen mode and work with the keyboard and mouse like traditional systems. I do not plan on buying a touch screen monitor for that reason.

I see different versions of Win 7 (ie, Home Premium, Professional), but nothing like that with Win 8.1. Is there only one version of Win 8.1?

 

[ClutchDisc]

There are different versions of 8.1, it's probably just not showing for some reason? But I would say spend the extra $50 for the one with Win 7, save yourself all the headache that 8.1 is going to give you.

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ Seems to be a mixed crowd on who likes Win 8.1 or not ... wonder why? I have not even seen or tried to use Win 8.1, so I have no idea what it would be like vs Win 7 which I have used quite a bit.

 

[ClutchDisc]

Start8 isn't going to solve all the issues with Win 8, it's just going to make it slightly tolerable. Btw, if you were going to get Start8, you can just get startmenu8 for free. But I will tell you, I had Win 8/8.1 for a while with the start menu added, and it was still an awful mess. So glad to be rid of it!

 

[ClutchDisc]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
^^^ Seems to be a mixed crowd on who likes Win 8.1 or not ... wonder why? I have not even seen or tried to use Win 8.1, so I have no idea what it would be like vs Win 7 which I have used quite a bit.

Some just like it I guess.. I don't know why. Trust me, if you haven't seen/used Win 8.1, go with Windows 7, you can thank me later. You know Windows 7. Windows 8 is like MS took Win 7 and said "lets take this and redesign it to make the most hideous, complex system possible out of it and call it Windows 8." It's regarded as Microsoft's biggest mistake yet.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: ClutchDisc
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
^^^ Seems to be a mixed crowd on who likes Win 8.1 or not ... wonder why? I have not even seen or tried to use Win 8.1, so I have no idea what it would be like vs Win 7 which I have used quite a bit.

Some just like it I guess.. I don't know why. Trust me, if you haven't seen/used Win 8.1, go with Windows 7, you can thank me later. You know Windows 7. Windows 8 is like MS took Win 7 and said "lets take this and redesign it to make the most hideous, complex system possible out of it and call it Windows 8." It's regarded as Microsoft's biggest mistake yet.


I really do appreciate the comments from someone who has tried Win 8/8.1. Can you just give me a few general examples (or detailed examples too) that were so bad about it?

Maybe I should stop in at Best Buy or someplace that has PCs running with Win 8.1 so I can see what it's like. I'm leaning back towards Win 7 now.

 

[ClutchDisc]

The whole "metro" thing is kind of baked into the entire operating system, you can add the extra start menu, but you will still have files opening up in the Metro interface at times. You can set these to open with a specific program, but for me anyway, they would revert now and then to opening in Metro. It drove me crazy! That, and hot corners on the screen were very annoying too.. Some of them could be turned off with the start menu app, but not all of them. Win 8 is actually better than Win 8.1, the update made it that much worse! All sorts of annoying little changes came with it, not one was better. For example, you can't get to "Computer" from the document window anymore, you have to go through a bunch strange steps to get there.. I've heard 8.1 update 1 is even worse, but I haven't tried it because I got rid of 8.

There are more things, but I think that gives you an idea. For your information, I threw my copy of Win 8 away along with the product key.. it was that bad. I have access to a free copy of Win 8.1 from my school, but it's not worth free even! I bought a used Windows 7 netbook and then put Linux on my laptop that had Win 8.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Thanks for that ClutchDisk. Yeah, the screen shots I've seen of Win 8 seems to be going in the same way that MS Outlook is setup with lots of what I would describe as throw back icons to represent everything. Kind of like the scene at 0:38 seconds in the film Idiocracy.

I don't care for the "dumbing down" of everything with icons like that.

Link: Idiocracy

 

[ClutchDisc]

No problem, I'm just trying to spare you all the frustration and headache that I went through. It's as if Microsoft reinvented a harder way of doing almost everything with Windows 8.. Each update just got worse.. Any other questions, just ask.

Windows 7 is going to be around for a long time. In my opinion, it's the best version of Windows.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
While I will agree with your thoughts (I have used 3 versions of Linux and like Zorin the best), the fact is until the Office Suites for Linux are FULLY compatible with MS Office, Linux will continue to flounder in that area. I have tried every version of Linux Office that I could find (Libre, Open, Star, KingSoft) and while they work very well on "original" documents, they tend to destroy documents which were created in MS Office. In addition, the spreadsheet program with most of them is in no way as powerful as Excel. I fully understand the "free" part, but sometimes you get what you pay for. I cannot imagine my company switching to Linux and "free" Office even though we would save millions out of the box, simply due to the overall lack of compatibility and support. Do not misunderstand, I like Linux and learn a bit more about it everyday, but (at least at the current time), I think it is far fetched to believe that Linux will become the OS of choice.

You think Microsoft may have something to do with those compatibility issues? It's certainly not in their best interest to make products that play well with other's products if they don't have to.

While anything is possible, I am skeptical that MS is actively introducing things into their various versions of Office on a routine basis to ensure incompatibility with open source software. Since MS had office before most of the open source companies, more likely the open crowd does not have a way or a need for such fine grained compatibility--after all, their software works very well on its own and has their own formats.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: ClutchDisc
No problem, I'm just trying to spare you all the frustration and headache that I went through. It's as if Microsoft reinvented a harder way of doing almost everything with Windows 8.. Each update just got worse.. Any other questions, just ask.

Windows 7 is going to be around for a long time. In my opinion, it's the best version of Windows.


I think I'll got with Win 7 while I still can. As you said, it probably will be around along time. I'm planning on getting a computer with some decent hardware (8GB RAM, 1TB HD, 3.5GHz processor, 23" HD 16:1 LCD monitor - all for $614 to the door) so I can always change the OS later down the road if something better than Win 7 comes out. Thanks for the comments!

 

[ClutchDisc]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: ClutchDisc
No problem, I'm just trying to spare you all the frustration and headache that I went through. It's as if Microsoft reinvented a harder way of doing almost everything with Windows 8.. Each update just got worse.. Any other questions, just ask.

Windows 7 is going to be around for a long time. In my opinion, it's the best version of Windows.


I think I'll got with Win 7 while I still can. As you said, it probably will be around along time. I'm planning on getting a computer with some decent hardware (8GB RAM, 1TB HD, 3.5GHz processor, 23" HD 16:1 LCD monitor) so I can always change the OS later down the road if something better than Win 7 comes out. Thanks for the comments!

No problem, that will make for a nice setup for you!

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ Only pain will be loading all the other software and getting malware and anti-virus software loaded that is meant for Win 7. Slowly but surely will get it built back up. I've had this Dell Dimension 4400 for about 12 years with Win XP and it's been a good machine, but obviously time for an upgrade. Should be able to keep the new one going for 10+ years too I would imagine.

 

[JustinH]

another vote for 8.1 and start 8.

Very very fast OS.

I love it. Also I stay in desktop mode all the time, never use the new interface.

 

[ClutchDisc]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
^^^ Only pain will be loading all the other software and getting malware and anti-virus software loaded that is meant for Win 7. Slowly but surely will get it built back up. I've had this Dell Dimension 4400 for about 12 years with Win XP and it's been a good machine, but obviously time for an upgrade. Should be able to keep the new one going for 10+ years too I would imagine.

I still am running my Dell E310, excellent computer! I plan to keep it running for as long as I can. The Dell computers are really good. What are your plans for the old one? If you are into having some fun, I suggest you keep it around and put Linux Mint on it.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I ordered the new computer and monitor tonight. Decided to go with the Windows 7 Home Premium operating system. I could always upgrade to Windows 8.x later if the desire hits me.

Basic summary of the computer and monitor specs.

Computer
Inspiron Desktop 3000 Series
Inspiron 3847, Windows® 7 Home Premium, 64Bit, English
4th Generation Intel Core i3-4150 processor (3M Cache,3.5 GHz)
8GB Dual Channel DDR3, 1600MHz (4GBx2)
Intel® HD Integrated Graphics
1TB, 7200 rpm SATA 6Gb/s Hard Drive
Inspiron 3847 Chassis, MT, Black w/8:1 media card reader
Tray load DVD Drive (Reads and Writes to DVD/CD)
Dell Wireless-N 1705 + Bluetooth 4.0
300 Watt Power Supply
Dell KB113 Wired Multimedia Keyboard
Dell MS111 USB 3-Button Optical Mouse

Front Ports
(2) USB 2.0, MCR 8:1, Mic and Headphone Jacks

Rear Ports
Four USB 2.0 connectors , Two USB 3.0 connectors, HDMI, VGA, RJ-45 (10/100/1000 Ethernet), 3-stack audio jacks supporting 5.1 surround sound

Monitor
Dell S2340L, 23-inch HD, LED Monitor, VGA/HDMI, 16:9 Widescreen
Stand: Tilt
Diagonally Viewable Size: 58.42 cm (23")
Horizontal: 509.18 mm (20.05")
Vertical: 286.41 mm (11.28")
Maximum resolution: 1920 x 1080 at 60 Hz
Aspect Ratio: 16:9
Pixel Pitch: 0.265 mm
Brightness: 250 cd/m2 (typical)
Color Support: Color Gamut (typical): 82%
Color Depth: 16.78M colors
Contrast Ratio: 1,000:1 (typical)
8 million: 1 (Dynamic Contrast Ratio)
Max Viewing Angle: (typical)(178° vertical / 178° horizontal)
Response Time: (typical) 7 ms with overdrive (gray to gray)
Panel Type: In-plane switching
Panel Backlight: LED
Power consumption (normal operation, typical): 19 W
Link: Monitor Photo

After company employee program applicable discounts:
Computer = $452.75
Monitor = $161.49
Sales Tax = $56.64
Free Shipping
Grand Total = $670.88

Seems like a pretty decent system for the money. Should be here in ~2 weeks.

 

[ClutchDisc]

Sounds pretty nice! Not to bad on the price either.

 

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
While anything is possible, I am skeptical that MS is actively introducing things into their various versions of Office on a routine basis to ensure incompatibility with open source software.


That is precisely their business model. It's called "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish". Their whole enterprise is predicate on locking in organizations to the point that re-formatting and converting data and re-training people is prohibitively expensive and difficult. This is the nature of "ownership" and the vigilant protections ownership of value requires (that free, open-source software is free of). My wife's school board has wanted to migrate office and databases for years, but they can't: They're locked in by the very people they paid to provide a service to them!

M$'s office and database (and all other) file formats are closed-source; meaning no one else can, without the pain of reverse-engineering, know HOW to be compatible. Complicating this is the fact that M$ then **patents** these technologies in order to forcibly **stop** others from attaining compatibility. It is deliberate, indeed. Their users are cash cows to be trapped and exploited.

 

[Garak]

Exactly. Historically, one has had to beg a lot of these companies with their proprietary formats to allow even backwards compatibility beyond more than one retail version of software.