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#3090942 - 08/09/13 04:07 PM Re: Why arent we recycling/re refining more oil? [Re: shell_user]
earlyre Offline


Registered: 11/22/11
Posts: 3477
Loc: Lima, Ohio, USA
I've used the Saftey Kleen eco power brand before, it's worked as well as anything else has in the neon, but it can be a total PITA for the DIY'er to find for sale. I've emailed safety kleen, they have no plans to sell to Joe Consumer, either directly, or mass market retailers, they are content to sell to shops. untill about 6 months ago no one with in 100 mi of me carried it, so i ended up buying some on vacation, from a shop near my brother's house, a 5qt jug for...$40!, the same price they would have charged me if they had done the oil change.(more expensive, b/c it's a syn blend,their basic PYB &Pennz filter change was $30)
there is now a shop within 10 mi of me that carries it, haven't checked their price, as i still have a 2-3yr supply in my stash.

what i really would like to see happen is one of the Major players, just quietly switch over,no big fan-fare, or hoopla, use the same packaging, and then a couple years down they line announce "that they've been using re-refined oil for years now."
_________________________
Mine:
09 Mercury Sable : 6qts VWB 5w20, WIX 51516
Mine to Maintain:
03 Pontiac Vibe : 4.5qts VWB 5w30,WIX 51394

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#3091408 - 08/10/13 03:42 AM Re: Why arent we recycling/re refining more oil? [Re: shell_user]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 9783
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Iirc the super tech in Canada is a safety Kleen product. So whether the Canadian Walmart shoppers/supertech users they are using re-refined oil.
I don't get the big deal. The oil itself doesn't wear out. The additives do deplete and the oil becomes the solvent that carries particulate to the filter,and absorbs the combustion by-products.
I the common man was even close to being aware of what it takes to refine crude oil into an engine oil they would realize that used engine oil really isn't that big a deal to refine back into a basestock.
Wouldn't the re-refined oil have more consistent sized molecules because not only the refining process but the usage in the engine breaking down the longer chains?
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3091953 - 08/10/13 07:07 PM Re: Why arent we recycling/re refining more oil? [Re: shell_user]
earlyre Offline


Registered: 11/22/11
Posts: 3477
Loc: Lima, Ohio, USA
been discussed countless times before, but yes, canadian Super tech is From safety kleen, comparable to the eco- power brand safety kleen sells in the US(just not to the Gen Public), while US supertech is made by a few diff folks depending what region you are in, I've seen it said that it's Warren, in some places, XOM in others...

from what I've read, re-refined oil seems to be much more readily available/ accepted, up north, than down here. please correct me if I'm wrong on that point.

(to the level that the $40 I Spent on 5qts of Eco-Power, would get you a 5 gallon pail of Canadian Supertech. IIRC)


Edited by earlyre (08/10/13 07:08 PM)
_________________________
Mine:
09 Mercury Sable : 6qts VWB 5w20, WIX 51516
Mine to Maintain:
03 Pontiac Vibe : 4.5qts VWB 5w30,WIX 51394

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#3091974 - 08/10/13 07:42 PM Re: Why arent we recycling/re refining more oil? [Re: shell_user]
JANDSZIRKLE Offline


Registered: 06/08/13
Posts: 237
Loc: Virginia
I think, and Im new here sorta... combination of two things....
Stigma and price are hurting recycled oils. I like valvoline maxlife nexgen, i use it in my old beaters with 200k plus miles but when the average consumer walks in walmart or parts stores and looks at price with offerings like mobil super 5k, havoline, quaker state, too mention a few, then look sat Valvoline nexgen for $3 more and even higher for maxlife nexgen, they get passed by. I also live in a rural area, and when people around here are told its half used oil or whatever the mix is, they look at you like your crazy. If the price point were more competitive, i could see more companies on the bandwagon, till then IDK. just my 2 cents. FWIF im a valvoline fanboy of sorts, but have no issue using other brands.


Edited by JANDSZIRKLE (08/10/13 07:44 PM)

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#3096370 - 08/15/13 01:19 PM Re: Why arent we recycling/re refining more oil? [Re: Shannow]
Kestas Offline



Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 11732
Loc: The Motor City
Originally Posted By: Shannow
... steel can become any number of things (chrome bumpers "contaminating" scrap steel lead to all sorts of metallurgical woes in the 80s when chrome bumpers weren't that common, or that much chrome).

I don't understand this statement. Can you clarify?

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#3202404 - 11/30/13 07:53 PM Re: Why arent we recycling/re refining more oil? [Re: shell_user]
Mustang2008Z Offline


Registered: 12/25/08
Posts: 435
Loc: USA
Here is a post that I put on Bitog regarding Safety-Klean and why you do not see recycled/refined oil on the shelves prior to Valvoline's Next Gen for those who look for cheap cheap oil, for their cars or trucks, please read carefully:

Here is your answer as to why Re-refined oil is not on the shelves:

Here is a comment from John Cutshall from Safety-Kleen as to why re-refined oil is not available in retail stores. He sent this to me 1.2.2009:

The real problem with retail marketing of our products is that there is little demand.

With low demand, it is impossible to get any retail outlets to stock the products.

Any time somebody goes into a parts store for oil, they are either looking for a name brand or the cheapest quart there. We do not offer either product.

"If you talked with Safety-Kleen in Waco, they do not distribute the America's Choice lubricants.

We have distributors in Ft. Worth, Fredericksburg and Gonzales.

These distributors do supply our government customers or sell our products as housebrand.

I'm sorry that I can not offer much hope of retail availability, but over the last 10 years, the State of California has spent tens of millions of dollars trying to generate retail demand for rerefined lubricants with little success.

With the economy down and State budgets being in the red, there will not be any support from those areas.

Thanks for your interest in our products."

Straight from Mr. Cutshall/Safety-Klean Regional Manager for Texas and the Western half of the U.S.
_________________________
2000 Nissan Frontier (Moana) 2.4L-145 C.I. 142 Puny Ponies
>198,000 miles Nissan-Mobil 5W-30|Nissan Filter

2008 Mustang MC Syn 5W-30|FL-820S

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#3202741 - 12/01/13 10:11 AM Re: Why arent we recycling/re refining more oil? [Re: shell_user]
Tomcat_80 Offline


Registered: 11/21/13
Posts: 88
Loc: North Carolina, U.S.A.
Thanks for that info

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#3203386 - 12/01/13 09:42 PM Re: Why arent we recycling/re refining more oil? [Re: JANDSZIRKLE]
Artem Offline


Registered: 10/30/10
Posts: 4683
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: JANDSZIRKLE
I think, and Im new here sorta... combination of two things....
Stigma and price are hurting recycled oils. I like valvoline maxlife nexgen, i use it in my old beaters with 200k plus miles but when the average consumer walks in walmart or parts stores and looks at price with offerings like mobil super 5k, havoline, quaker state, too mention a few, then look sat Valvoline nexgen for $3 more and even higher for maxlife nexgen, they get passed by. I also live in a rural area, and when people around here are told its half used oil or whatever the mix is, they look at you like your crazy. If the price point were more competitive, i could see more companies on the bandwagon, till then IDK. just my 2 cents. FWIF im a valvoline fanboy of sorts, but have no issue using other brands.


You have to remember that Valvoline Nextgen contains recycled Synthetic oil, from those who dump their Mobil 1, Amsoil, etc, into the recycling container at your local autoparts store. For this reason alone, it's better then the regular conventional oil from the competitors and is worth the few extra bucks.

I have a ton of it from the Valvoline rebates and use it in my wife's Scion tC, which previously used Amsoil's Signature Series oil. The tC seems happy with the Conventional Nextgen and the UOA after 5k showed the oil can go longer.

I agree that the price is not very competitive, hence why it may not be selling very well, which sucks because it's a great oil and a great way to recycle used oil and save our natural resources.
_________________________
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#3203426 - 12/01/13 10:17 PM Re: Why arent we recycling/re refining more oil? [Re: Mustang2008Z]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 21456
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: Mustang2008Z
Here is a comment from John Cutshall from Safety-Kleen as to why re-refined oil is not available in retail stores. He sent this to me 1.2.2009:

The real problem with retail marketing of our products is that there is little demand.

Our Walmarts use Safety-Kleen oil for their Supertech in Canada (it's actually called somethin different now). It's a great way to get the product out there, and given the price of oil up here, it's an excellent bargain, too.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Baldwin B1402
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#3203463 - 12/01/13 11:18 PM Re: Why arent we recycling/re refining more oil? [Re: Kestas]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 35936
Loc: Oz
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Originally Posted By: Shannow
... steel can become any number of things (chrome bumpers "contaminating" scrap steel lead to all sorts of metallurgical woes in the 80s when chrome bumpers weren't that common, or that much chrome).

I don't understand this statement. Can you clarify?


Sorry Kestas, thought that I'd answered previously...

There was a failure at "Pleasant Prairie" in which a large bore carbon steel pipe failed massively and killed some people. Globally, a lot of feed mains started coming apart (power stations have metallurgy matched to the local steam/water conditions, and have carbon steel up to 300C, and 30MPa ish).

There is a phenomenon known as Flow Accelerated Corrosion (FAC, also "Erosion/Corrosion"), where an oxide layer forms, and is washed off almost immediately, thinning the pipelines, often to failure.

Back in turbine engineer days, it scared us witless.

A tiny trace of Chromium protects the steel...an absolute tiny trace.

High chrome scrap protected the early high pressure equipment, by providing that tiny trace...it was only FAC in later, more pure steel that suffered, and demonstrated the need.

http://www.kns.org/jknsfile/v30/A04803285692.pdf

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#3204022 - 12/02/13 02:47 PM Re: Why arent we recycling/re refining more oil? [Re: shell_user]
rrguy Offline


Registered: 09/20/10
Posts: 93
Loc: MN
Used oil is in demand for making asphault, shop heaters up North etc...
Penzoil maybe left some with a bad taste or trying to recycle oil backinto use during the 80's?

I believe it is cost, transporting etc... that is the main reason. Its the fuel usage that supposedly creates a demand for oil. Allot of the products from oil left over after making gas or fuel are fairly cheap etc byproducts to make plastic etc...
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#3210590 - 12/08/13 04:32 PM Re: Why arent we recycling/re refining more oil? [Re: rrguy]
fdcg27 Offline


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 13696
Loc: OH
You have a good point.
It may be that it makes more sense and saves more energy to reuse drain oil as a fuel than to run it through a hyrocracking process to reuse as basestock.
The logistics alone are daunting, with relatively small quantities of drain oil having to be picked up by truck and then transfered to refineries.
Contrast that with those who will happily pick up used oil locally to burn as fuel, and it may make more sense to burn used oil than to re-refine it.
That said, I do use Nextgen, but I wonder whether the net energy used in producing a jug of Nextgen might not exceed that used in producing a jug of VWB?
_________________________
12 Accord LX 69K SSO 0W-20
09 Forester 83K PU 10W-30
01 Focus ZX3 112K M1 5W-20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 BMW 318iC 159K Delvac 15W-40

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#3213623 - 12/11/13 04:53 PM Re: Why arent we recycling/re refining more oil? [Re: fdcg27]
PandaBear Offline


Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 13502
Loc: Silicon Valley
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
I wonder whether the net energy used in producing a jug of Nextgen might not exceed that used in producing a jug of VWB?


In theory it should be way less. In practice, if the used oil that goes into the refinery to make Nextgen would have been burn as bunker fuel, and has to be replaced with something (i.e. diesel or heavy oil) out of the refinery, that would not be all that beneficial.

Now if those used oil would be dump instead....


Edited by PandaBear (12/11/13 04:53 PM)
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"You keep asking questions PandaBear and you'll end up a vegetarian like my wife" - Camu Mahubah

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#3282679 - 02/15/14 07:25 AM Re: Why arent we recycling/re refining more oil? [Re: shell_user]
Mustang2008Z Offline


Registered: 12/25/08
Posts: 435
Loc: USA
The website that tests oil put out an advisory against Valvoline NextGen Re-refined 5W-20 motor oil stating that it does not meet GF-5 Standards on one particular test. PQIAmerica stands by it's advisory even though Valvoline responded that the test may not be a consistent reliable test due to various factors.
_________________________
2000 Nissan Frontier (Moana) 2.4L-145 C.I. 142 Puny Ponies
>198,000 miles Nissan-Mobil 5W-30|Nissan Filter

2008 Mustang MC Syn 5W-30|FL-820S

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