How does bypass filtration affect oil analysis?

[OneQuartLow]

This is something that's been bugging me. How useful is oil analysis after a super-efficient bypass filter is installed? Can I expect anything beyond red flags for water/fuel/etc?

Does anyone provide oil filter analysis services? Should I squeeze out the filter in my oil sample?

If we already have results posted I'll sit in the corner wearing the pointy hat.

David

 

[Pablo]

quote:

---

How useful is oil analysis after a super-efficient bypass filter is installed?

---

Not sure how you define "useful" but to me it's just as important if not MORE especially if you are trying to do a super long EODI. Even the best filtration in the universe will not remove soluble contaminants/oil break down constituents -such acids, oxides, nitrates, etc. Basically a filter catches particulates/parcipitates and a little water if that water isn't full solubilized.

quote:

---

Can I expect anything beyond red flags for water/fuel/etc?

---

Still look at TBN, Oxidation, Nitration - and of course watch the metals to see if the filter is really working.

quote:

---

Does anyone provide oil filter analysis services?

---

You mean examine the filter to see what it caught? I supposed you could send it to Terry or other lab WITH A BIG WARNING or you could find a chemical analysis lab in the big city nearest you - maybe expensive. Interesting though-but make sure no one thinks it's just a regular well sampled motor oil - I can see it now (especially if was Amsoil) - LOOK at those high wear metals, yadayadayada.....!

quote:

---

Should I squeeze out the filter in my oil sample?

---

See above - this question is not as silly as it seems at first blush - people have sometimes sent samples in to be analyzed that were (full flow) filter back drain - this is not a true representation of the system oil. But it does point out you don't want backflush in your engine

[ November 21, 2002, 06:45 AM: Message edited by: Pablo ]

 

[OneQuartLow]

Thanks Pablo. I'm mostly fretting over the evidence tampering, namely the removal of wear metals. I'm okay with sampling to check oil condition but the fact engine wear can't be compared with baselines is... well, annoying.

Is it feasible to extract filtered contaminants from a filter in one shot? Not that I can get lab-quality data, but maybe I could get something relative between changes. i.e. Wash, separate, dry, weigh. I have a .001g scale (homebrew) but from there my lab turns to canning jars, steins, welding, & airtools.

Know of any simple solvents/processes to break down or separate TP without washing away data?

Patman, I've contracted your worry warts.

David

 

[Patman]

David, nobody worries about stuff as much as me! Heck, I even worry when I'm topping up my oil if I am leaving the fill cap off too long and getting dust into the oil!

 

[Patman]

That's odd, I just posted something but it's not appearing.

Wait, there it is now.

Bob, the server is acting very funny, I was getting a lot of errors this morning.

[ November 21, 2002, 08:56 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[msparks]

quote:

---

Originally posted by OneQuartLow:
Thanks Pablo. I'm mostly fretting over the evidence tampering, namely the removal of wear metals. I'm okay with sampling to check oil condition but the fact engine wear can't be compared with baselines is... well, annoying.

David

---

Wear metals are disolved in the oil and do not show up as (Iron) for example, when they test the oil they are not looking for the iron, but another substance.

By-pass filtration will not alter the presence of wear metals, except in the area of actual particles.

For instance I'm working with a customer that has a power stroke, because he is having a problem with proper combustion(over 5% soot) his iron wear is over 150ppm so it still shows up even with a by-pass filter.

Hope this helps.

 

[msparks]

Typically, an Atomic Emission Spectrometer is used in oil analysis to identify common wear metals, contaminates, and inorganic additives found in lubricants. The data from this analysis is usually reported in parts per million.

Spectrographic Analysis – How It Works

The oil sample is ionized in a control chamber; the light from this burning process is separated by a diffraction grating (much like a prism). Each element emits its own characteristic wavelength of light (energy). Photo-multiplier tubes are positioned to collect this light from the specific metals. With the aid of a computer, the intensity of light is compared to a standard and converted to parts per million.

The value of emission spectroscopy is well known. The laboratory can evaluate trends in wear rates, cross contamination with different lubricants (additives), contamination from silicon (dirt) and coolant additives.