Mazda Filter Woes

[RamFan]

As a new owner of a Mazda CX-5 I've been learning the ins and outs of the vehicle. I heard some people saying that you must use Mazda filters on the SkyActiv engines because of bypass ratings. And you know, if it's on the internet then it must be true. No, really, I heard it on the internet!

But I digress, I decided to do some research and came across this gem . Now, what on Earth does the internal engine oil pressure have to do with the internal oil filter pressure!? Considering some engines can see upwards of 60psi do people expect the bypass rating to be 60+psi. I just don't see the logic, is there something that I've missed on my time here on BITOG?

 

[donnyj08]

this is the filter i use on my 2009 RX8. the 09+ rotary was redesigned with a higher flow oil pump and much higher oil pressure than the 04-08 renesis rotary, thus a change in filter bypass setting and canister thickness.

im not sure if your skyactiv engine requires this filter or not.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
RamFan - Check the Internet for "Differential Pressure"

 

[RamFan]

Originally Posted By: donnyj08
this is the filter i use on my 2009 RX8. the 09+ rotary was redesigned with a higher flow oil pump and much higher oil pressure than the 04-08 renesis rotary, thus a change in filter bypass setting and canister thickness.

im not sure if your skyactiv engine requires this filter or not.


2.0l and 2.5l SkyActiv engines require PE01-14-302.

 

[RamFan]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
RamFan - Check the Internet for "Differential Pressure"


Hi Doug,
this was my thought as well, engine pressure =/= filter pressure. However, considering that I'm not a scientist and definitely not a physicist, I wasn't sure if I was wrong in my understanding. My understanding in a nutshell when referencing oil filters is that the oil entering the filter sees a reduction in pressure and the oil leaving the filter sees an increase in pressure. Is this incorrect?

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
RanFan - The oil entering the filter is subject to resistance across the filter media - if too great the filter is by-passed maintaining flow

 

[danthaman1980]

You basically have three choices. Mazda PE01-14-302, Wix 57002, or Napa Gold 7002. Other filters will fit but have a lower bypass setting.

 

[RamFan]

Originally Posted By: danthaman1980
You basically have three choices. Mazda PE01-14-302, Wix 57002, or Napa Gold 7002. Other filters will fit but have a lower bypass setting.


Where are you finding the bypass pressures? I've found info on the Wix and Napa but none of that provided the bypass rating. Looking for info on the Mazda filter produced no results. I do know that the PureOne has a 14-18psi rating which according to the thread on RX-8 forums should be adequate.

 

[MrMeeks]

could this car have it's bypass valve inside the engine block?

 

[Boomer]

"You cannot always believe quotes that you see on the Internet as they can be impossible to verify." ---Abraham Lincoln

 

[RamFan]

Originally Posted By: MrMeeks
could this car have it's bypass valve inside the engine block?


Not that I know of, given that the Mazda filter has a bypass valve I'd assume not.

 

[05LGTLtd]

Mazda Roki filters are top quality and the price is not hateful. If I were you I'd use them. If you're not close to a dealer, just buy a years worth at a time, Or order them online.

 

[JethroBodine]

What is the big woe? $6.25 on amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00727BDN2

 

[badtlc]

Wix had to design a custom oil filter for this engine. That should tell you a lot about the importance of the different requirements. The Toyo-Roki filters from the dealership or the Wix (napa gold) are the only ones designed for these skyactiv engines.

Just an FYI, Mazda has $5 off of $15 in parts purchases right now. You could by two filters for around $8/each and get the $5 off to make them about $5.50/each. Good price for a [censored] good filter.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: JethroBodine
What is the big woe? $6.25 on amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00727BDN2


That link says $7.30 not counting shipping.

 

[RamFan]

Originally Posted By: JethroBodine
What is the big woe? $6.25 on amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00727BDN2


I'm not concerned with the price. I'm concerned if there's a genuine need to be concerned with the pressure relief rating or if it's Internet amplification or even worse, simply not true.

 

[danthaman1980]

Originally Posted By: RamFan
Where are you finding the bypass pressures? I've found info on the Wix and Napa but none of that provided the bypass rating. Looking for info on the Mazda filter produced no results. I do know that the PureOne has a 14-18psi rating which according to the thread on RX-8 forums should be adequate.


Wix/Napa/Mazda haven't published the bypass setting on the new filters. I've seen others guess but I haven't seen anything confirmed. Actually for all I know it could be speculative that the reason for the re-design is for higher bypass setting - Since I can't confirm that is the case, it could well be the newer design has a lower bypass setting. I've also seen some speculation that the newer design has a higher flow rate/lower delta P across the media, but again I can't confirm that.

What I can confirm is that there is something different about the PE01-14-302, Wix 57002, and Napa Gold 7002 since they have been specifically designed for the Skyactiv. Other filters may fit and work fine, but it is too early to tell EXACTLY what the differences are.

Originally Posted By: MrMeeks
could this car have it's bypass valve inside the engine block?

I doubt it; I have seen a Mazda PE01-14-302 and a Wix 57002 in person; they both have bypass valves in the filter.

I'm not sweating the filter issue personally; the Mazda filters are reasonably priced and stocked at like every Mazda dealer.

The Wix/Napa Gold are expensive and not stocked at every parts house, but they are in O'Reilly's and Napa's system (respectively), and can be ordered easily. I'll use them as a 'backup' option until they come down in price.

 

[danthaman1980]

Originally Posted By: RamFan
Originally Posted By: JethroBodine
What is the big woe? $6.25 on amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00727BDN2


I'm not concerned with the price. I'm concerned if there's a genuine need to be concerned with the pressure relief rating or if it's Internet amplification or even worse, simply not true.


Contact Wix and ask! I'm sure they know why they designed the 57002 for the Skyactiv!

http://wixfilters.com/ContactUS.aspx

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: RamFan
I decided to do some research and came across this gem . Now, what on Earth does the internal engine oil pressure have to do with the internal oil filter pressure!? Considering some engines can see upwards of 60psi do people expect the bypass rating to be 60+psi. I just don't see the logic, is there something that I've missed on my time here on BITOG?


He's saying the new engines run at higher oil pressure and that the new OEM oil filter also has a higher bypass pressure setting. The only way they could be related is if the higher oil pressure causes higher oil volume - it would if the engine's oiling circuit resistance to flow was the same. That means there could be a higher delta-P across the filter media due to higher oil flow through it, which would in turn require a higher bypass valve setting to ensure the filter doesn't go into bypass too often.

I've always said that the bypass valve setting on an oil filter not only takes into account the vehicles it is designed for, but also on how well the filter is designed to flow. In other words, the designer looks at all the vehicles the filter will be specified for and takes the worst case flow conditions (ie, highest pump output and oil viscosity uses), as well as the flow characteristics of the filter, and then combines all of those factors to determine what the filter's bypass setting should be.

That's why 5 different filter brands specified for the same exact engine might all have different filter bypass valve settings. The setting is not just based on the engine, but also on the design of the filter media strength (so it can take the delta-P) and flow characteristics of the media and how it loads up with use, which determines the max delta-P expected.

 

[danthaman1980]

Originally Posted By: danthaman1980
Originally Posted By: RamFan
Originally Posted By: JethroBodine
What is the big woe? $6.25 on amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00727BDN2


I'm not concerned with the price. I'm concerned if there's a genuine need to be concerned with the pressure relief rating or if it's Internet amplification or even worse, simply not true.



Contact Wix and ask! I'm sure they know why they designed the 57002 for the Skyactiv!

http://wixfilters.com/ContactUS.aspx


Out of curiosity, I emailed Wix customer service to ask the bypass setting question myself. Here is the answer I received:

"The relief valve setting for 57002 is 11-14 pounds of differential pressure."

So there you have it, and apparently I was wrong... there are several filter manufacturers who sell filters this size with bypass settings in the 11-14 psi range, and as long as they list the Skyactiv engines on their application list, I'm sure these other filters will work fine.