2011 LML duramax oil

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CONMCK

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alberta
Looking for an oil recommendation;
I have a 2011 LML duramax, approaching 35,000 km (20,000miles). The dealer performed the first 3 oil changes as part of my sales neg. From now on I will do the DIY oil changes. Looking for a recommendation. I'm from Canada and have easy access to Shell, Esso, and Petro Canada oils, as well as everything else out there.....

FYI. This truck has the EGR shut off, and the DEF/DPF/SCR removed, whether or not that will make a difference on oil selection???

Also, my preferred maint on all my vehicles is to change the oil twice a year, spring and fall, which = 12,000-15,000km (8000-10000 miles) on each change.

thank - you.
 
Originally Posted By: CONMCK
Looking for an oil recommendation;
I have a 2011 LML duramax, approaching 35,000 km (20,000miles). The dealer performed the first 3 oil changes as part of my sales neg. From now on I will do the DIY oil changes. Looking for a recommendation. I'm from Canada and have easy access to Shell, Esso, and Petro Canada oils, as well as everything else out there.....

FYI. This truck has the EGR shut off, and the DEF/DPF/SCR removed, whether or not that will make a difference on oil selection???

Also, my preferred maint on all my vehicles is to change the oil twice a year, spring and fall, which = 12,000-15,000km (8000-10000 miles) on each change.

thank - you.


What's the dealer using for oil?? If you are in Canada I would use an 0W synthoil (G4 plus) in winter and part synthetic 5W in summer. Not sure if you need a 30 or 40 for this engine.
 
The first oil change was Petro Canada 15w-40 non syn oil, and the last 2 were Castrol 15w-40, non syn as well. I'm wondering if I should just choose a viscosity and find any CJ-4 oil and be done with it... Seems like the duramax is easy on it's oil and shows good UOA results with just about anything!!!
grin.gif

dnewton3 has convinced me that syn oil is not always required as well.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
With no EGR and no SCR/DPF, you can use any HDEO you wish CH4 or
CI4 for instance.

Charlie


That is the other part of my OP i was wondering. So your saying CJ4 is not required and CH4 or CI4 is good enough?????? or is CJ4 still beneficial.
 
Originally Posted By: CONMCK
or is CJ4 still beneficial.


CJ-4 will probably be easier to find, at least. Older diesel specs are getting harder to come by in Canada. I know Imperial Oil got rid of some of their older stuff.
 
Originally Posted By: CONMCK
The first oil change was Petro Canada 15w-40 non syn oil, and the last 2 were Castrol 15w-40, non syn as well. I'm wondering if I should just choose a viscosity and find any CJ-4 oil and be done with it... Seems like the duramax is easy on it's oil and shows good UOA results with just about anything!!!
grin.gif

dnewton3 has convinced me that syn oil is not always required as well.


If this diesel does have a reputation for being easy on the oil 15/40 is OK in summer, but I would definitely not use 15/40 in the winter. It might not show increased wear metal results in the summer, but I bet it will in the winter unless you fit a serious pre heater, it will also give your battery, starter motor and alternator a hard time. There is nothing wrong in swapping between a conventional 10 or 15/40 in summer and a fully synthetic 0/40 in winter.
If there is any way you can fit a simple pre heater I would do so, as the cost of the electric will be less than you save in reduced fuel bills (When it is very cold most diesels burn 2 to 3 times as much fuel for about the first 10 minutes) and even a basic sump only stick on pad will allow you to use a 5/40 and that will give you a greater choice of oils in winter. If you don't have a DPF, EGR or high tec KAT, then you can choose an oil with a higher Zinc content with an add pack designed for the engine and not the exhaust system.
I don't care what the advertising says about the latest DPF rated high tech oils, they are not as good as some of the older ones that had higher Zn and other additives. I had a chat with an LM tech a few months ago and he is still insisting that none of the research into alternatives to Zn or thick oils has shown any kind of proof that the oil or car companies have found an effective alternative. Any reports that say the new oils don't perform as well almost certainly got binned and the last one he read that showed similar wear figure for some rare metal additive was based on 9 hr runs of a diesel engine that is no longer in production and a report from an oil analysis company in Germany had stated could even run on a straight oil with no additives without a big increase in wear metals. If they had looked at any other engine type or did a report with a lot of cold starts and short cycle use it would have been a very different story.
 
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The Dmax is approved down to zero F for 15w-40 conventional lubes.

Being in Alberta, I'd consider a 10w-30 dino or 10w-40 semi-syn.

The wear rates are not greatly affected by cold temps, if any at all. The extreme lows affect the starting and battery drain, and so a thinner grade would be beneficial here, although common rail injection and intake heaters have negated that somewhat.

The OCI plan does not require a syn, but your temps may or may not, depending upon your exact location. However, if you plan includes two OCIs per year, you might benefit from a conventional for summer and semi for winter? Aren't there some good Petro products up there that would fit the bill?
 
I second the use of a synthetic in the winter for example Duron XL 0W30 or 5W40 or Co-Op DMO SL 0W40, if not always parked in heated garage.
Where in Alberta are you?
Nights here in non polar Anchorage have been at or below -15C (sometimes down to -25C) for 6 weeks straight. I certainly don't start my Unimog every day but I am really glad I use M1 0W40 in my daily driver BMW 325xi which is parked outdoors and has no block heater.

Charlie
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
The Dmax is approved down to zero F for 15w-40 conventional lubes.

Being in Alberta, I'd consider a 10w-30 dino or 10w-40 semi-syn.

The wear rates are not greatly affected by cold temps, if any at all. The extreme lows affect the starting and battery drain, and so a thinner grade would be beneficial here, although common rail injection and intake heaters have negated that somewhat.

The OCI plan does not require a syn, but your temps may or may not, depending upon your exact location. However, if you plan includes two OCIs per year, you might benefit from a conventional for summer and semi for winter? Aren't there some good Petro products up there that would fit the bill?


Good reply and one slightly off topic question I have is that I thought modern thinking on cold start wear had moved away slightly from oil film and flow factors to increased corrosion.
My own car has to suffer a lot of cold starts each day and I did notice a slight increase in Fe in my last UOA ( In the diesel UOA section, LM synthoil 5/40 ), BUT all the wear metals like Cr, Pb and Cu were the same and Volvo oil pumps don't wear out (A failing oil pump is one of the few pure Fe sources), so I was wondering if that Fe increase was corrosion related. The figure was still below universal average but significant in possible trend terms or if it was just a particle streak from an oil pump bearing, assuming that is a pure steel plain bearing.
 
Originally Posted By: skyship
Originally Posted By: CONMCK
Looking for an oil recommendation;
I have a 2011 LML duramax, approaching 35,000 km (20,000miles). The dealer performed the first 3 oil changes as part of my sales neg. From now on I will do the DIY oil changes. Looking for a recommendation. I'm from Canada and have easy access to Shell, Esso, and Petro Canada oils, as well as everything else out there.....

FYI. This truck has the EGR shut off, and the DEF/DPF/SCR removed, whether or not that will make a difference on oil selection???

Also, my preferred maint on all my vehicles is to change the oil twice a year, spring and fall, which = 12,000-15,000km (8000-10000 miles) on each change.

thank - you.


What's the dealer using for oil?? If you are in Canada I would use an 0W synthoil (G4 plus) in winter and part synthetic 5W in summer. Not sure if you need a 30 or 40 for this engine.


In a duramax. I'm pretty sure that nowhere in the owners manual does it state that any 0w is acceptable.
Before giving advice it may be wise to know what your talking about. What if he tries this and something fails. Sorry isn't going to cut it when he is looking at a bill for thousands of dollars(not euro's)
Come on man.

Op. if you are under warrantee use an oil that qualifies and meets whatever certs required. If you are wanting to stretch out the interval to 15000kms then I suggest going to the hdeo sub forum and looking at the uoa posted there and see what kind of mileages guys are doing with different oils. The uoa found there can help with your selection and I know there are many duramax uoa there.
Skyship likes to give advice without any thought to operating conditions or part of the planet the engine is operating on. Take his advice with a grain of salt.
Amsoil makes a diesel oil that suits your needs however there may be a more cost effective option,check the hdeo sub-forum and I guarantee an answer will present itself.
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: skyship
Originally Posted By: CONMCK
Looking for an oil recommendation;
I have a 2011 LML duramax, approaching 35,000 km (20,000miles). The dealer performed the first 3 oil changes as part of my sales neg. From now on I will do the DIY oil changes. Looking for a recommendation. I'm from Canada and have easy access to Shell, Esso, and Petro Canada oils, as well as everything else out there.....

FYI. This truck has the EGR shut off, and the DEF/DPF/SCR removed, whether or not that will make a difference on oil selection???

Also, my preferred maint on all my vehicles is to change the oil twice a year, spring and fall, which = 12,000-15,000km (8000-10000 miles) on each change.

thank - you.


What's the dealer using for oil?? If you are in Canada I would use an 0W synthoil (G4 plus) in winter and part synthetic 5W in summer. Not sure if you need a 30 or 40 for this engine.


In a duramax. I'm pretty sure that nowhere in the owners manual does it state that any 0w is acceptable.
Before giving advice it may be wise to know what your talking about. What if he tries this and something fails. Sorry isn't going to cut it when he is looking at a bill for thousands of dollars(not euro's)
Come on man.

Op. if you are under warrantee use an oil that qualifies and meets whatever certs required. If you are wanting to stretch out the interval to 15000kms then I suggest going to the hdeo sub forum and looking at the uoa posted there and see what kind of mileages guys are doing with different oils. The uoa found there can help with your selection and I know there are many duramax uoa there.
Skyship likes to give advice without any thought to operating conditions or part of the planet the engine is operating on. Take his advice with a grain of salt.
Amsoil makes a diesel oil that suits your needs however there may be a more cost effective option,check the hdeo sub-forum and I guarantee an answer will present itself.


Every owner is responsible for their own decisions and because the OP can read and write I'm sure he knows what the owners manual says for oil grades. It is possible that even at extreme low temps only a 5W is approved, as some modern diesels place a limit on that W rating due to the way it relates to the OCI. I've never heard of an oil causing a failure because it was an 0W and I have not mentioned any specific oil types because I did not cross check the oil guides. It is more difficult to figure out a good oil for this engine as the oil guides will assume a DPF is fitted which restricts the choice recommended. You can write directly to both liqui Moly and Castrol in the UK, but the US oil companies tend not to reply for legal reasons.
To confuse the issue further some truck engines don't recommend anything except 15/30 or 40 because you are supposed to fit a pre heater if you operate in cold climates and as fuel burning auto pre heaters are available for most modern diesels you don't need the plug in variety, although they are not cheap. The newer Volvo trucks have a system where you send a text message or set a timer that starts the pre heater and warms the cab, so the engine block is at a good temp for starting as will be the driver. If you don't turn up for 30 minutes it switches off.
You do make a good point that the OP should include what the required oil limits are and if the warranty is still valid or not. The legal basis for a warranty in the US changed some years ago, so they would have to prove the engine failure was caused by the oil to reject the claim, BUT in some countries if you sign an extended warranty agreement the fine print will say that you can only use the dealers approved oil. A few even state that you have to use dealer to change the oil.
All advice should be taken with a grain of salt, although the advice from car or truck manufactures and that from the US dealers or US hosted oil company sites should be taken with a lot more salt, as there is a chain reaction in progress over oil grades and approvals that effect fuel economy and that has been complicated further by the go green folks being in charge of the design of exhaust systems and the nasty habit some US dealers have of recommending or using a lower quality oil in some cases.
The best trend in recent years has been the increasing use of UOA facilities in the US (They are twice as expensive in the EU so I use Blackstones) and I would recommend the OP does a UOA every oil change as it is not only a good way to figure out the OCI, cross check the results of changing oil or filter, but can also detect developing problems with coolant ingress, air filter, or fuel injection.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: skyship
It is possible that even at extreme low temps only a 5W is approved, as some modern diesels place a limit on that W rating due to the way it relates to the OCI.


I'm not sure either as to what the manual permits for that vehicle in cold conditions. Obviously, if it's limited to 15w-40 and 10w-30, then that limits choices significantly, even if synthetic is chosen.

If 5w-40 is allowed, there are easily available offerings from Imperial Oil and Petro-Canada, and even more if 0w-30 or 0w-40 HDEOs are allowed. However, one has to be careful, since some of the 0w-30 HDEOs here in western Canada have older specifications; heck, one can find older stuff in 15w-40 if one isn't careful. Most stuff will be CJ-4, though.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: skyship
It is possible that even at extreme low temps only a 5W is approved, as some modern diesels place a limit on that W rating due to the way it relates to the OCI.


I'm not sure either as to what the manual permits for that vehicle in cold conditions. Obviously, if it's limited to 15w-40 and 10w-30, then that limits choices significantly, even if synthetic is chosen.

If 5w-40 is allowed, there are easily available offerings from Imperial Oil and Petro-Canada, and even more if 0w-30 or 0w-40 HDEOs are allowed. However, one has to be careful, since some of the 0w-30 HDEOs here in western Canada have older specifications; heck, one can find older stuff in 15w-40 if one isn't careful. Most stuff will be CJ-4, though.


This doc gives a rough idea of approvals for most HDEO's, although bear in mind it's from a Cummins group and the recommendations are not based on actual UOA results etc.
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/TDR57_Oil.pdf

I did take a quick look in the Duramax users forum and 90% of owners use a 15/40 HDEO, BUT a lot of the owners in Canada or Alaska are using a 5/40 diesel oil. Most of them regard an 0W as too expensive. The oil companies regard 5/40 as OK down to minus 25C, although I think the actual certification limit is minus 35C without pre heat for the oil rather than truck, so it does need to be a rather cool part of Canada before you think of using an 0W.
If you are DYOR the GM trucks are listed under Opel/GME on EU oil finder sites, but the advice the offer will be based on the DPF being fitted which rules out quite a number of HDEO's, so is not very useful.
 
Originally Posted By: skyship
I did take a quick look in the Duramax users forum and 90% of owners use a 15/40 HDEO, BUT a lot of the owners in Canada or Alaska are using a 5/40 diesel oil. Most of them regard an 0W as too expensive.


In my experience, the 5w-40 and 0w-40 oils are usually about the same price, with a few exceptions. For older specifications, one has to watch what one buys from the Co-ops (they have a few older ones), Petro-Canada (one or two older ones), and Castrol (GTX diesel I've seen is CI-4, though Tection Extra and Elixion are CJ-4). It seems all the Mobil stuff readily available here is the CJ-4 stuff, including TDT and Delvac 1 ESP 0w-40 and 5w-40 and Delvac Elite 222, and the same goes for Shell and what little I've seen for Chevron here.

In fairness to Petro-Canada, their spec sheets are very clear as to what oil is certified for what specification, and which ones are recommended (i.e. meet or exceed) what specification. The Co-op isn't bad in that regard either, but their spec sheets are difficult to find and a nightmare to wade through. Imperial Oil (our XOM) has a lot of spec sheets for discontinued products muddled in with current ones, which complicates the matter - phoning in an order for a discontinued product creates much confusion.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: skyship
I did take a quick look in the Duramax users forum and 90% of owners use a 15/40 HDEO, BUT a lot of the owners in Canada or Alaska are using a 5/40 diesel oil. Most of them regard an 0W as too expensive.


In my experience, the 5w-40 and 0w-40 oils are usually about the same price, with a few exceptions. For older specifications, one has to watch what one buys from the Co-ops (they have a few older ones), Petro-Canada (one or two older ones), and Castrol (GTX diesel I've seen is CI-4, though Tection Extra and Elixion are CJ-4). It seems all the Mobil stuff readily available here is the CJ-4 stuff, including TDT and Delvac 1 ESP 0w-40 and 5w-40 and Delvac Elite 222, and the same goes for Shell and what little I've seen for Chevron here.

In fairness to Petro-Canada, their spec sheets are very clear as to what oil is certified for what specification, and which ones are recommended (i.e. meet or exceed) what specification. The Co-op isn't bad in that regard either, but their spec sheets are difficult to find and a nightmare to wade through. Imperial Oil (our XOM) has a lot of spec sheets for discontinued products muddled in with current ones, which complicates the matter - phoning in an order for a discontinued product creates much confusion.



0/40 and 5/40 are the same price if the 5/40 is a full synthetic, but most 5/40 diesel oils are part synthetics and cheaper, but I know the prices are lower outside the EU and I guess the difference is less. The cheapest oil is a 15/40 in most countries, although the gap between the HC synthetics and conventional oils has narrowed a lot in the past few years.
 
Originally Posted By: skyship
most 5/40 diesel oils are part synthetics

Last i knew 5w40's were full synthetic(GRPIII)where are you finding a synthetic blend 5w40?????????????
 
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: skyship
most 5/40 diesel oils are part synthetics

Last i knew 5w40's were full synthetic(GRPIII)where are you finding a synthetic blend 5w40?????????????


You can get full (Group 4) synthetic, HC synthetic or part synthetics. In terms of the major brands the HC synthetics are the most common for a 5/40 grade oil.
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
The Dmax is approved down to zero F for 15w-40 conventional lubes.

Being in Alberta, I'd consider a 10w-30 dino or 10w-40 semi-syn.

The wear rates are not greatly affected by cold temps, if any at all. The extreme lows affect the starting and battery drain, and so a thinner grade would be beneficial here, although common rail injection and intake heaters have negated that somewhat.

The OCI plan does not require a syn, but your temps may or may not, depending upon your exact location. However, if you plan includes two OCIs per year, you might benefit from a conventional for summer and semi for winter? Aren't there some good Petro products up there that would fit the bill?


One thing I'll mention, this truck is parked at home in a garage where I keep the thermostat a couple of degrees above freezing. In central alberta, overnight temps at an extreme could see -40 (-40F) but more avg overnight temps in winter -20 to -30C (0 - -20F). In these situations when sitting for extended periods of time and not parked at home, I always ensure the OEM block heater is plugged in or the truck stays home and I drive something else. I wonder in this case if 15w-40 would be a good choice all year round.

Petro Canada does appear to have many choices of CH/CI oils as well as the CJ as well.
 
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