Why NOT to buy a Jetta TDI ?

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: Volvohead
Diesel will never sell for less than regular grade gas forthe foreseeable future, for a variety of reasons, market and technical.



It depends on where you are though too, up here in Toronto diesel costs less than gasoline. The lowest price today for gas is 119.9 cents per liter and the lowest price for diesel is 116.9.

 

[stockrex]

volvohead, never say never my friend, the main reason diesel is now above regular is the EPA low sulfur reg and the cracking houses used it as an excuse to bump up the price.
Wait till cng/lpg catches on and diesel starts to cry.

million miles, I am guessing tdis are not Cummins or even Isuzu diesels, the engine might last that long but what about the other parts? vw dealers have an attitude that you should bring your rich uncle along for the service. Don’t get me wrong, I like vws but after I did the match for glow plugs, filters, tranny service, diesel oil filters, the honda fit with 900 cc engine and 5 speed auto looked pretty good.

Purely on cost of fuel diesel did make sense, but factor in initial acquisition cost + repairs and upkeep, it just did not make economic sense for a 200k miles ownership.

 

[Scum_Frog]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Mustang_Cougar
They should stop trying to sell me a lifestyle and just get back to value and "driving pleasure."

because after all, price is the biggest factor for most buyers, and the sales numbers of the new Jetta seem to prove it.


Interestingly, I have read somewhere ( sorry, I can't seem to find it anymore) that although yes they did lower the price and quality on the base Jetta, they are in fact now selling more Jetta's at a higher price, then they did when the base model was more expensive. What they did was take a page out of the Japanese book. Price the Jetta against a larger number of competition, so when shoppers do Internet searches, car mags do their comparisons, the Jetta is now included in the mix, where before because of the price point it was not. These base trims exist for advertising only, the manufacturers want to sell as few of these as possible.

 

[Volvohead]

Originally Posted By: stockrex
volvohead, never say never my friend . . .


I never said that. I said for the foreseeable future. There's many factors at play that will keep diesel more expensive in the US for a while.

Originally Posted By: stockrex
. . . million miles, I am guessing tdis are not Cummins or even Isuzu diesels, the engine might last that long but what about the other parts? . . .


And none of them are a DD. I'm thinking you're guessing wrong about the rest.

All else being equal, a diesel is a better engine choice when very high mileage and service life is contemplated. They're better made and more efficient engines. VW has historically made a very dependable and durable diesel, and a lot of them over the years (mostly for Europe). Volvo also makes a terrific diesel, but you'll likely not see one in the US. Don't confuse displacement with durability.

GM buggered the US diesel auto market 30 years ago with a [censored] design and it never overcame that stigma.

If a tree-hugger is just looking to feel good for 3-5 years and 75-150k (an oxymoronic disposable vehicle choice?), then they shouldn't look at any diesel.

 

[tgferg67]

One thing that is being overlooked.
What is the recommended timing chain replacement interval and cost for the TDI. the going rate for a TDI timing belt change is $800 independent or $1500 at the dealer. A dealer timing belt change buys alot of gasoline.

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: stockrex
volvohead, never say never my friend, the main reason diesel is now above regular is the EPA low sulfur reg and the cracking houses used it as an excuse to bump up the price.
Wait till cng/lpg catches on and diesel starts to cry.

million miles, I am guessing tdis are not Cummins or even Isuzu diesels, the engine might last that long but what about the other parts? vw dealers have an attitude that you should bring your rich uncle along for the service. Don’t get me wrong, I like vws but after I did the match for glow plugs, filters, tranny service, diesel oil filters, the honda fit with 900 cc engine and 5 speed auto looked pretty good.

Purely on cost of fuel diesel did make sense, but factor in initial acquisition cost + repairs and upkeep, it just did not make economic sense for a 200k miles ownership.


CNG and LPG have a lower BTU per gallon, so those engines will never be as powerful as a diesel of similar displacement.

 

[youdontwannaknow]

Did you guys check out the new 2012 Passat TDI ? They lowered the price tag, it has similar fuel efficiency, and I am fine trading the extra cost over the Jetta with extra space and refinement of the Passat. Some early reviews are positive.

 

[oggb]

Diesel is expensive. Maintenance and repairs on VWs are expensive. VWs are expensive.

Buy a Prius if you want to save gas.

 

[morris]

why WOULD you buy a Jetta TDI ?

 

[Smokescreen]

PriusChat has lots of threads on how to tune up the suspension without much cost either, sway bars, springs can do wonders. If I lived in a warmer climate it would have my attention.

Having owned a VW turbo diesel, it was a love hate relationship...and I am a guy who loves to tinker.

 

[stumpypete]

My kids have had three late model VWs. All bought new. Two Jettas and a Beetle. None were diesels and all drove very well but they all had mechanical and/or electrical problems.Things that just don't break on Toyotas. Either we are a very unlucky family or there are some real quality issues with these cars.Just this week the girl's Beetle "secondary air pump" went out-at 49000 miles- a $650 repair.

 

[Steve S]

The reason not to buy a VW???? Things break on them that do not break on Toyotas.

 

[vintagegz]

Biggest reason not to purchase is VW itself, VW Canada Customer Assitance just wants to set up a file and document your concerns, but any problems and they say it is a 'dealer matter' and do not want to get involved. I wrote to VW Germany and North America and everything comes back to Customer Care who will do nothing. All that having been said, a Golf , since they are made in Germany, would be my only choice. I would rather give jobs to our European friends than to Mexico.

 

[salesmantony]

In 2009 I bought a 2005 Corolla with 52K miles on it. It now has 151K miles on it. All I've done is change the oil, and when the mileage dips to 37mpg or so, I re-up the air in the tires and start getting over 40mpg again. This is with a full load of sales samples, etc. in the trunk.

Save your money, buy a reasonable used car (Toyota, Honda, etc) and let someone else pay the big bucks for a over-hyped TDI. I get the same mileage (albeit less performance) with NONE of the maintenance issues.

 

[supton]

I've found my TDi to be a great highway cruiser (albeit I have an '04). Once in 5th it's a got to be a full load in the car to require a downshift at 60mph for any hill (like 8% grade). Above that it's no downshifting. I think the interior has worn well, the drivers seat is getting a old but nothing torn/ripped.

But they do need a good mechanic. Small things tend not to be so small; and untrained persons will only make them worse. Dealers tend to be the worst of the lot. If one isn't mechanically inclined *and* willing to go by book religiously, and doesn't have a local mechanic well versed in TDi's, then it's much safer to go elsewhere.

As for cost, you really have to drive both high miles per year and for a number of years to justify the extra cost. Actually, when comparing a brand new TDi to say a 5 year old Civic/Corolla, you might never get there--depreciation and repairs will likely keep the cost/mile much higher inspite of the longer life and higher mpg. Also: one never knows the future. Are you willing to run this car for 10 years?

Oh: diesel pumps. Most I've seen aren't that dirty, but it's easy to get some diesel onto your hand. Worse is finding one. 1 out of 3 stations, give or take, has diesel; you'll want to fill up at one that has fuel turnover (like a truck stop). I find it annoying though, as they will have say 10 pumps, but only 2 will be diesel (unless if you want to go out back with the big rigs), and Murphy's law says you'll be stuck waiting for the gasser's who will fillup at the diesel pump.

Finally, I find it hard to cruise at legal limits in this car. A boring one would be easier (set cruise, play with the radio). Actually, wife's Civic has a natural speed limiter--too much road noise, I always think I'm doing 80 when I'm only doing 70 in that thing.

 

[FowVay]

To bring this thread up from a few days ago:

I took a drive from Atlanta up to Charlotte yesterday in my 2009 TDI jetta. It logged just over 600 miles on my odometer. I drove up, took care of business, drove back, used less than a full tank of fuel, averaged 47.2 MPG, and I was still able to walk when I got home.

To me this shows a vehicle to be comfortable, frugal, and simply a pleasure to drive. I didn't dread getting back into it this morning. I did however, have to get fuel on my way to work.

 

[rg200amp]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
The reason not to buy a VW???? Things break on them that do not break on Toyotas.


The reason not to buy a Toyota???? Things break on them that don't break on Honda's.


See how stupid that sounds?????

 

[Clayslayer]

I don't understand some of the comments on this thread. I have an '02 Jetta with an ALH TDI (rotary pump, 90hp).

My car is bone stock. Change the timing belt every 80K miles, K&N air filter, fed Amsoil DEO 5w-40.....

I have 310,000 miles and counting. The car runs just about as good as new. 80mph on the interstate will give me 43 mpg. Seating position is as comfortable as any car I've EVER owned. I have leather, a good stereo, sunroof, heated seats, you name it.

Here's what's gone wrong: Replaced the windshield once. Clearcoat on the hood isn't that good (imagine that after 300+ Thousand miles of mosquitoes). "refinished" the headlights, and the driver side vanity light doesn't work.... and that's about it.

The TDI is an AWESOME car. I've driven the Prius. I wouldn't trade my 10 year old Jetta for a brand new Prius. Seriously.

Extra maintenance?? Really?? The 'big thing' is the timing belt that has to be replaced every 80K miles. Runs me around $600 every 5 years to do that. Brakes, tires, clutch, etc aren't any different or more costly than any other car.

Prius....pfft

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: rg200amp
Originally Posted By: Steve S
The reason not to buy a VW???? Things break on them that do not break on Toyotas.


The reason not to buy a Toyota???? Things break on them that don't break on Honda's.


See how stupid that sounds?????

The thing that poster mentioned was an electric Secondary Air Pump, a smog device you see in VW engines, but not Toyota or Honda engines. Toyota and Honda figured out how to get good catalyst light off time without an electric Secondary Air Pump.

So don't say it is stupid that thing break on a VW that will not break on a Toyota.

 

[Sunnyinhollister]

Originally Posted By: Clayslayer
I don't understand some of the comments on this thread. I have an '02 Jetta with an ALH TDI (rotary pump, 90hp).

My car is bone stock. Change the timing belt every 80K miles, K&N air filter, fed Amsoil DEO 5w-40.....

I have 310,000 miles and counting. The car runs just about as good as new. 80mph on the interstate will give me 43 mpg. Seating position is as comfortable as any car I've EVER owned. I have leather, a good stereo, sunroof, heated seats, you name it.

Here's what's gone wrong: Replaced the windshield once. Clearcoat on the hood isn't that good (imagine that after 300+ Thousand miles of mosquitoes). "refinished" the headlights, and the driver side vanity light doesn't work.... and that's about it.

The TDI is an AWESOME car. I've driven the Prius. I wouldn't trade my 10 year old Jetta for a brand new Prius. Seriously.

Extra maintenance?? Really?? The 'big thing' is the timing belt that has to be replaced every 80K miles. Runs me around $600 every 5 years to do that. Brakes, tires, clutch, etc aren't any different or more costly than any other car.

Prius....pfft


I had three Jetta TDIs. The first two were a 1998 that was totaled and a 2003, so it had the same engine as yours. Other than oil changes, air & fuel filters, rear brakes that did not last all that long, and cleaning the intake every 40k , it was as you describe.

The 2005.5 TDI we had was a pleasure to drive when it was on the back of a tow truck. These also had the DMF failures, cam failures, and timing issues from the factory.

I would never buy a new VW. It's like owning a car with no warranty. The factory does not stand behind their product and the dealer just blamed the consumer for the design defects from the factory.

As far as the Prius comparison, we owned one of those also. The Jetta was a much better car to drive, delivered almost as much fuel economy, but with the higher maintenance and fuel costs of the TDI, coupled with the lack of reliability, the Prius wins out.

Now we own a Volt and get even better fuel economy!