I was wondering what difference (if at all) that you notice in gas mileage between the summer/winter gas blends? I researched the web some people claim of up to 3 MPG better on summer blended gas while other's notice no difference at all. Thoughts? Thanks.
MPG difference between summer/winter blend gas
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depends on the car..
I could see something that gets mid 40's going up 3mpg
and a truck that gets 15mpg seeing no real difference.
there is no real way to test because they only use winter blend in the winter (with different conditions)
and summer blend in the summer etc.
I could see something that gets mid 40's going up 3mpg
and a truck that gets 15mpg seeing no real difference.
there is no real way to test because they only use winter blend in the winter (with different conditions)
and summer blend in the summer etc.
Less than 1-2%, undetectable with so many other variables.
I see a difference. Right now I average about 21-22 MPG in my Legacy in mixed driving. In the summer time it is 23-25. Same route and everything.
Cold denser air is harder for the car to cut through which = the need to push the gas pedal harder to maintain the same speed during the winter months.
I'm willing to bet that if you were to get a tank full of winter gas and out it in your car during the summer, there will be NO difference.
I'm willing to bet that if you were to get a tank full of winter gas and out it in your car during the summer, there will be NO difference.
Originally Posted By: bodeh6
I see a difference. Right now I average about 21-22 MPG in my Legacy in mixed driving. In the summer time it is 23-25. Same route and everything.
My knee-jerk reaction to the question is the same. My Nissan sees around 28 MPG October - March and 30 MPG April - September. However, Rand makes a good point in that there's more than the summer versus winter gas variable involved. Driving conditions during the seasons vary too so it's hard to say the weight each variable carries.
I see a difference. Right now I average about 21-22 MPG in my Legacy in mixed driving. In the summer time it is 23-25. Same route and everything.
My knee-jerk reaction to the question is the same. My Nissan sees around 28 MPG October - March and 30 MPG April - September. However, Rand makes a good point in that there's more than the summer versus winter gas variable involved. Driving conditions during the seasons vary too so it's hard to say the weight each variable carries.
It seems that my highway avg seems to go down by 1-2 MPG computer and hand calulated.
Of course, winter conditions do have more rolling resistance from tires and thicker grease and lubes.
Also, the engine takes longer to warm up, and runs a richer fuel mixture.
Air resistance at higher speeds is a factor.
But I still believe there is a difference, with winter gas being inferior.
Why? One good example is when driving from Chicago to Texas and back. My brother and I have done this numerous times, and the winter fuel from up here is always less MPG.
Also, the engine takes longer to warm up, and runs a richer fuel mixture.
Air resistance at higher speeds is a factor.
But I still believe there is a difference, with winter gas being inferior.
Why? One good example is when driving from Chicago to Texas and back. My brother and I have done this numerous times, and the winter fuel from up here is always less MPG.
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My truck always takes a 2-3 mpg hit, from 16-17 to 13-14.
Although this year they seem to be switching back a bit early, my last tank was up to 15.
Although this year they seem to be switching back a bit early, my last tank was up to 15.
Unless you hold every other variable besides the winter fuel blend constant, there is no way to tell what is due to the fuel and what is due to temperature effects on everything else.
We see winter blended fuel here from October - April. It definitely impacts MPG. We can have 70+ degree days in October( even November )still and even a few in April( 60's common )so this cold being behind it all theory does not fly. Yes, vehicles take longer to warm up and all of that when it is cold out which does hurt MPG. However, when it is still warm out( even 50's )that just goes out the window. They don't stop using winter blended fuel if it gets warm though. Set time frame regardless of the weather.
Winter blended fuel absolutelly will hurt your MPG. I can tell every year when it shows up as all of a sudden my MPG drops a good 2 MPG +/-. That was on my trucks anyway. On my current 4cyl Jeep Patriot it has been a bigger hit. I was averaging 24 MPG with it prior to the winter blend and now it has dropped all the way down to 20-21 MPG. It has even dropped down to the high 19's when it has been really cold and I had to warm it up before driving.
We have had an abnormally warm winter this year. 60's all the way into December and even averaging mid 40's( 50's even at times )in Jan and Feb. MPG still has tanked. Weather and how long you let your vehicle warm up definitely hurts MPG in the winetr but so does winter blended fuel. I have years of hand calculated fuel data that backs that up. Winter blended fuel is here during periods of warm weather and MPG is still impacted.
Winter blended fuel absolutelly will hurt your MPG. I can tell every year when it shows up as all of a sudden my MPG drops a good 2 MPG +/-. That was on my trucks anyway. On my current 4cyl Jeep Patriot it has been a bigger hit. I was averaging 24 MPG with it prior to the winter blend and now it has dropped all the way down to 20-21 MPG. It has even dropped down to the high 19's when it has been really cold and I had to warm it up before driving.
We have had an abnormally warm winter this year. 60's all the way into December and even averaging mid 40's( 50's even at times )in Jan and Feb. MPG still has tanked. Weather and how long you let your vehicle warm up definitely hurts MPG in the winetr but so does winter blended fuel. I have years of hand calculated fuel data that backs that up. Winter blended fuel is here during periods of warm weather and MPG is still impacted.
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19-20mpg summer. Almost constant 17.8 winter garbage. Oh, and thats with the A/C in the summer time mostly city driving with some highway.
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15-20% less during the winter for me.
This is another area (similar to just about any ethanol thread) that some folks are only going to see what they want to see. I again state that without holding every other variable constant, one will have a hard time seperating the effect of winter fuel (which by itself is an interesting question) from all other affects, mostly temperature related.
Fuel in our market does not have a single switch that gets flipped from summer to winter and back. One measure of winter fuel is the maximum RVP (Reid Vapor Pressure) allowed. This is a measure of the volatility of the fuel. A higher RVP helps cold winter starting, but also means that lighter , cheaper feedstocks can be used.
Here are the dates of changes in our market:
March 1st: Max RVP 8.5
May 1: Max RVP 9.0
Sept 16: Max RVP 10.0
Oct 1: Max RVP 11.5
Nov 1: Max RVP 13.5
Dec 1: Max RVP 15.0
Feb 1: Max RVP 13.5
Feb 16: Max RVP 10.0
Note there is a ramp up and a ramp down. We already started ramping down here almost a month ago. (The March 1st number is slightly lower to ensure that any residual stock with higher RVP's when blended comes down to an RVP of 9.0 or less). Not every market operates this way, but it again raises the point, how do you know what fuel exactly you are buying and comparing? Winter fuel? Sort of winter fuel?
Fuel in our market does not have a single switch that gets flipped from summer to winter and back. One measure of winter fuel is the maximum RVP (Reid Vapor Pressure) allowed. This is a measure of the volatility of the fuel. A higher RVP helps cold winter starting, but also means that lighter , cheaper feedstocks can be used.
Here are the dates of changes in our market:
March 1st: Max RVP 8.5
May 1: Max RVP 9.0
Sept 16: Max RVP 10.0
Oct 1: Max RVP 11.5
Nov 1: Max RVP 13.5
Dec 1: Max RVP 15.0
Feb 1: Max RVP 13.5
Feb 16: Max RVP 10.0
Note there is a ramp up and a ramp down. We already started ramping down here almost a month ago. (The March 1st number is slightly lower to ensure that any residual stock with higher RVP's when blended comes down to an RVP of 9.0 or less). Not every market operates this way, but it again raises the point, how do you know what fuel exactly you are buying and comparing? Winter fuel? Sort of winter fuel?
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Originally Posted By: MNgopher
This is another area (similar to just about any ethanol thread) that some folks are only going to see what they want to see. I again state that without holding every other variable constant, one will have a hard time seperating the effect of winter fuel (which by itself is an interesting question) from all other affects, mostly temperature related.
Fuel in our market does not have a single switch that gets flipped from summer to winter and back. One measure of winter fuel is the maximum RVP (Reid Vapor Pressure) allowed. This is a measure of the volatility of the fuel. A higher RVP helps cold winter starting, but also means that lighter , cheaper feedstocks can be used.
Here are the dates of changes in our market:
March 1st: Max RVP 8.5
May 1: Max RVP 9.0
Sept 16: Max RVP 10.0
Oct 1: Max RVP 11.5
Nov 1: Max RVP 13.5
Dec 1: Max RVP 15.0
Feb 1: Max RVP 13.5
Feb 16: Max RVP 10.0
Note there is a ramp up and a ramp down. We already started ramping down here almost a month ago. (The March 1st number is slightly lower to ensure that any residual stock with higher RVP's when blended comes down to an RVP of 9.0 or less). Not every market operates this way, but it again raises the point, how do you know what fuel exactly you are buying and comparing? Winter fuel? Sort of winter fuel?
Awesome post!
I notice a difference as well, but I've also got all of these gears sloshing around cold oil in the winter time. Also, as much of a proponent of drive-to-warmup, I'm sure that I still allow more time in the winter, especially during cold days. This, combined with a cold-start enrichment are what I'm guessing eat up the extra MPG's. Whether winter fuel has any appreciable effect I have no idea. Combined with all of the aforementioned, it could very well be true that I'd see and INCREASE in MPG's if I ran winter fuel in the summer time (never you mind the additional venting of the more-volatile fuel! haha)
This is another area (similar to just about any ethanol thread) that some folks are only going to see what they want to see. I again state that without holding every other variable constant, one will have a hard time seperating the effect of winter fuel (which by itself is an interesting question) from all other affects, mostly temperature related.
Fuel in our market does not have a single switch that gets flipped from summer to winter and back. One measure of winter fuel is the maximum RVP (Reid Vapor Pressure) allowed. This is a measure of the volatility of the fuel. A higher RVP helps cold winter starting, but also means that lighter , cheaper feedstocks can be used.
Here are the dates of changes in our market:
March 1st: Max RVP 8.5
May 1: Max RVP 9.0
Sept 16: Max RVP 10.0
Oct 1: Max RVP 11.5
Nov 1: Max RVP 13.5
Dec 1: Max RVP 15.0
Feb 1: Max RVP 13.5
Feb 16: Max RVP 10.0
Note there is a ramp up and a ramp down. We already started ramping down here almost a month ago. (The March 1st number is slightly lower to ensure that any residual stock with higher RVP's when blended comes down to an RVP of 9.0 or less). Not every market operates this way, but it again raises the point, how do you know what fuel exactly you are buying and comparing? Winter fuel? Sort of winter fuel?
Awesome post!
I notice a difference as well, but I've also got all of these gears sloshing around cold oil in the winter time. Also, as much of a proponent of drive-to-warmup, I'm sure that I still allow more time in the winter, especially during cold days. This, combined with a cold-start enrichment are what I'm guessing eat up the extra MPG's. Whether winter fuel has any appreciable effect I have no idea. Combined with all of the aforementioned, it could very well be true that I'd see and INCREASE in MPG's if I ran winter fuel in the summer time (never you mind the additional venting of the more-volatile fuel! haha)
Excellent info, MNgopher! I never knew about that, and it is quite interesting. Thanks for sharing!
Just to reiterate, not every market will be the same as what we experience here in the Twin Cities. I point it out as one example of it not being as black and white as it is sometimes made out to be. Others who switch between RFG and other stocks, may see something dramatically different.
FWIW, all the RVP's I listed here are for our E10 gasoline blend, which is mandated by state law here. Markets where ethanol is added only in the winter (do those still exist? I don't know!) may very well see an abrupt change.
FWIW, all the RVP's I listed here are for our E10 gasoline blend, which is mandated by state law here. Markets where ethanol is added only in the winter (do those still exist? I don't know!) may very well see an abrupt change.
In this case, I have half a tank left (filled on Jan 30) and will try to not fill up until mid-late march.
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