Cold start lifter tick

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JHZR2

JHZR2

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When below 45F, and especially below freezing, my 91 BMW 318i has a lifter tick. Sounds like a sewing machine, and goes away after about two minutes of driving, during which I try to never go over 2000RPM.

I've tried a bunch of things - 0w oil, neutra, kreen, zmax, LM MoS2. All had some quieting behaviors, but none lasted.

So I'm just sticking with M1 10w-40.

But I have a few questions:

-I've heard lots of folks say that they've driven for years with a tick. I've also read that driving with a lifter that doesn't take the valves up properly is a recipe for a burned valve, since the valve will not be traveling its correct distance. Which is the case?

-Is it prudent to replace only one lifter (if you can find which one it is), or must you do all 16?

- How do you determine which is ticking?

-Does this job require removal of the head?

- is this job a DIY without special tools? Like remove the VC, unscrew the bearings holding the cams down, pull the cams, extract the lifters, then replace and torque down back together?

Thanks!
 
I'd recommend buying a bicylce as a reliable source of transportation. I'm kidding. LOL if it goes away I wouldnt worry about it. Just my opinion.
 
Originally Posted By: chevyboy14
I'd recommend buying a bicylce as a reliable source of transportation.


works for millions of folks throughout asia....

LOL
 
Originally Posted By: chevyboy14
I'd recommend buying a bicylce as a reliable source of transportation. I'm kidding. LOL if it goes away I wouldnt worry about it. Just my opinion.


I would if I could get over the bridge to work.

It goes away as it warms up, but I can still strive for excellence. If doing this saves me from a burned valve, Im happy too.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2

I've also read that driving with a lifter that doesn't take the valves up properly is a recipe for a burned valve, since the valve will not be traveling its correct distance. Which is the case?

Thats false. having a valve staying slightly open will eventully burn a valve but a ticking lifter keeps the valve closed longer and the longer the valve is closed the more heat it can transfer to the seat.
 
Can anyone comment on this technique?

http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121

My engine has hollow cams that can crack if not treated very carefully. BMW uses a special tool that keeps full pressure down on the bearing caps while loosening them, then slowly lifts all off together, preventing irregular forces.

That tool is more or less unobtanium, and I don't have a full auto repair shop to do anything better.

I was thinking of taking a piece of metal rod and just putting some weights on top of it to help keep some force down on it, but it seems to me that this is too risky.

Is the 1/4 turn, going around continuously, the right way to approach this? What about re-installation?
Thanks!

IMG_2921.jpg


IMG_2927.jpg


IMG_2925.jpg
 
The write up accurate.
You don't need the special tool. just back the caps off slowly, i start in the middle and then the ends moving back toward the middle in small steps.

You can change just one adjuster, the others have nothing in common with each other, each is an individual.
As someone posted a ticking adjuster will 100% not burn a valve.
The cam has been broken in so you do not need assembly lube on the bearings just oil, put some assembly lube on the adjuster.

To install start in the middle move to the ends working into the middle at small increments, spread the load equally and gradually over the entire camshaft.
I have done literally hundreds of engines that called for a special usually unavailable cam holding tools and haven't used one yet, just be careful and work in small steps.
Many engines use hollow cams, the changes of breaking one doing it this way are slim to none.
Tightening one single cap down first then moving to the next can certainly snap one.

Use a stethoscope to find the loud one, once you are on top of it you will know it. Mark the cover to find it once you take it apart.
 
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Originally Posted By: JHZR2

I've also read that driving with a lifter that doesn't take the valves up properly is a recipe for a burned valve, since the valve will not be traveling its correct distance. Which is the case?

Thats false. having a valve staying slightly open will eventully burn a valve but a ticking lifter keeps the valve closed longer and the longer the valve is closed the more heat it can transfer to the seat.


Yup, looser (louder) valves, while annoying at start up, will function like that without any problems. On a high mileage vehicle I would watch for really quiet valves, as they may cause problems.
 
Quote:
On a high mileage vehicle I would watch for really quiet valves, as they may cause problems

+1 Just to add, this is applicable to mechanical adjuster only, hydraulics compensate for seat recession.

Tight valve are due to valve seat recession while loose is either a worn part or a collapsed/ bleeding down or varnish stuck adjuster in the case of hydraulics.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav


Use a stethoscope to find the loud one, once you are on top of it you will know it. Mark the cover to find it once you take it apart.


Is it going to find me the loud one, or just the region around where I can limit it to between 4 and 12 that need to be replaced instead of all 16?

Should I just replace all? Will the bad one be visually notable?
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Trav


Use a stethoscope to find the loud one, once you are on top of it you will know it. Mark the cover to find it once you take it apart.


Is it going to find me the loud one, or just the region around where I can limit it to between 4 and 12 that need to be replaced instead of all 16?

Should I just replace all? Will the bad one be visually notable?

I replace all simply because I know if 1 failed, how much is left on the others?

Also, when replacing a cam in an OHV engine, I was always told to use new lifters, due to chanes in wear between the 2 parts. I would have to imagine the same thing happens in DOHC engines.
 
How out of spec are the clearances/lash?
A few thou over is nothing to be concerned about.
Noise is to be expected. Those pics indicate mechanical lifters.

As to the special tool, simply loosening the caps incrementally may indeed work - it is what I would do. Excruciatingly SLOW is the key.
OHCs can and do crack all the time when working on them. A real heartbreaker!

BTW, if you check clearances, do it dead cold. Why? It is the only way to be really consistent.
 
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
How out of spec are the clearances/lash?
A few thou over is nothing to be concerned about.
Noise is to be expected. Those pics indicate mechanical lifters.

As to the special tool, simply loosening the caps incrementally may indeed work - it is what I would do. Excruciatingly SLOW is the key.
OHCs can and do crack all the time when working on them. A real heartbreaker!

BTW, if you check clearances, do it dead cold. Why? It is the only way to be really consistent.


The BMW M42 engine has hydraulic lifters, no adjustments possible. Hope this image works, otherwise the link will.

0.png


http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...hg=11&fg=25
 
$18.88 per lifter. If I can figure out which side of the engine the noise seems to be coming from, wouldnt it at least be prudent to change all the lifters on one cam?

I could leave the other cam alone, and just do 8 that way.
 
Quote:
wouldnt it at least be prudent to change all the lifters on one cam?


I cant think of any reason to change more than the one making noise.
All are independent operators and have nothing in common that could effect their operation.
You could just change both on one cyl if you really cant isolate it closer than that.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav

I cant think of any reason to change more than the one making noise.
All are independent operators and have nothing in common that could effect their operation.
You could just change both on one cyl if you really cant isolate it closer than that.


OK, thanks! Hope my "stethescoping" works out well and accurate!
 
Originally Posted By: raaizin
My wife has a 2008 X-3 which was equipped with this feature. It happens when she does alot of short trips. From what I have read head replacement is the only solution. It has only happened 3 times in the 2 years we have had it, so we decided to live with it.. You can google SI B 11 09 07 or read the following links

http://forums.5series.net/topic/76675-n52-engine-with-ticking-read-here/

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246996&highlight=ticking



WAAAAY different engine... M42 is a 1.8L 4 cyl with technology shared (supposedly) with the BMW V12 engines (supposedly things like the distributorless ignition system, etc., which was fairly advanced for its 1991 vintage).

Not a far more powerful, newer, more advanced 6 cyl.

It never used to do this. It is recently over the last two or three years, and winter only. Quiet and smooth in the summertime, without issue. Long trips make no difference.

Thanks though!!!
 
So I have been trying to figure out which lifter it is, so that I can just replace two of them instead of 8 or 16.

I have tried with both a #4 phillips screwdriver against my ear, and a mechanic's stethescope. I have not been able to isolate it well enough. Frankly, Im not entirely sure even which cam it is coming from.

Id really prefer to not risk removing both cams, but it may be more prudent for me, given my lack of surety, to do all eight.

Thing is, i still cant figure which side it is coming from!

To make matters worse, anyone familiar with the M42 knows that the injectors tick loudly when warm (even a brand new set from Bosch will do this). So, as the engine warms, you are balancing a quieting tick from the lifter with a tick that is getting louder from the injectors, which is coming from four spots, making it tougher.

UGH! Is there another way to tell? If I pull the VC again, can I somehow push them or prod something to determine the faulty one?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. At $18 each, doing 16 isnt the end of the world, but Id really like to limit my work down to having to do 8 max. Im not confident even in a half-engine or a quarter-engine yet...

Thanks!
 
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