CI-4 or CJ-4 for a Gas Engine

[cancov]

Multiple searches have come up empty. But I'm looking at least a CI-4, but perhaps a CJ-4 engine oil for my '86 Mazda B2000 with 2.0 Liter, 4 cylinder GAS with 211,xxx miles. I'm looking this oil for the detergent to help clean up my engine. I'm looking at:

Castrol Elixion 5w30 with a API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_int.../0-999/1854.pdf

Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel 5w40 with a API CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS/CI-4/CH-4/CG-4/ SM/SL/SJ
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_Turbo_Diesel_Truck_5W-40.aspx

Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 0W-40 with a API CJ-4 / CI-4 PLUS / CI-4 / CH-4 / SM
http://www.mobil.com/Shared-Files-LCW/mobil-delvac-synthetic-engine-oils_amer_en.pdf

Shell Rotella® T6 5w40 with a API CJ-4
http://www.shell.com/home/content/rotella/products/t6/

AMSOIL Synthetic 5W-40 Diesel Oil with a API CJ-4, CI-4+, CF, SM
https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/deo.aspx

I see that these oils are listed for diesel applications. Can these be ran in a gas engine like mine to assist with the cleanup? I've been reading some stuff from this guy, Richard Widman:
http://www.widman.biz/uploads/Corvair_oil.pdf

 

[Torrid]

You could, but I'd run a 15w40 dino and short intervals. No reason to pay syn prices for cleanup.

 

[ahoier]

The only concern I would have, is running 15W-40 in a vehicle that is spec'd for 5W-20,5W-30 as most "newer" vehicles are....

I know Amsoil states that based on the "Ambient temperature" for my yr/make/model I can use 15W-40 in my 88 Dodge Aries.....but I just don't feel comfortable doing it....fear of blowing seals, etc....would a 15W-40 hurt my vehicle?

I was thinking about the Mobil "Turbo Diesel" that WM has, but yea, as Torrid mentions, that's a high price to pay simply for a "Clean up oil" lol.....


So what exactly is the difference between a 5W-30 and say a 15W-40...? Perhaps I should go back to Motor Oil 101, but still kinda new on the "science" down to how they determine thicknesses, esp. when I see people asking for "heavier 5W-20 oils" or "recommend a lighter 5W-30 oil" etc....hehe.


What would be considered a "light" 15W-40 motor oil? Out of say,

*Rotella T (dino type, not the gold jug - can't remember what it's called exactly...lol)
*Delo
*Mobil Turbo Diesel
*SuperTech 15W-40



Sorry about "derailing" this thread....but this seems to be a new trend, particularly in the "classic" cars (mine happens to be an 88 Dodge Aries....) but didn't feel the need to start another thread, asking basically the same question....

 

[sunfire]

The oil additive section has lots of products to help speed up the cleaning. You could be looking at quite a few OCIs with diesel oil alone depending on how bad your engine is.

 

[zyxelenator]

Kreen it, might save you money if you planning on switching to more expensive oil. Is your truck burning oil? Switching to heavier oil should reduce oil burning, in your case Mobil Delvac 15w-40 for summer (pretty cheap) and Rotella T6 5w-40 for winter.(cheap as for synthetic oil, and should go 5k miles without a hassle.)
Kreen cost 14$, and looks to be very effective so far, and there is no problem to use it in addition with diesel oil.

 

[Jim Allen]

IMO, 15W40 is way too thick for this application. Like the poster above, why put high end synthetics in a 211K engine? Also, the Elixion is very hard to find and as costly as Amsoil.

My suggestion is to go with a 10W30 HDEO, the most available of which would be the conventional Rotella T Triple Protection (about $3/qt or less). If you wanted to bump up a little, go to the T5 (about $4/qt or less). In all honesty a 5W30 or 10W30 High Mileage oil would probably do the job.

Is this truck an "abused child" you picked up that you know has not been maintained or ??? If you've been maintaining it properly over the years, it's not likely to be in a terminally dirty state. Plus, trying to clean up an engine at that mileage is somewhat an exercise in futility, not to mention a little dangerous. If you get carried away, you can break a lot of stuff loose all at once and plug oil passages, pickup screens, oil filters, etc. I killed a high mileage engine that way once. Cleaning is best done gradually but in reality, how many more miles are left in this thing. The best advice would probably be to run a good HM oil and watch over the old guy until he gives up the ghost.

 

[jstutz]

I have a mercury 2.0L and have run 15w40 in the summer time with no ill effects. I was always careful to drive easy during warm up. I actually like how it made the engine sound. Like Jim said it is a little thick for the application. Mine has VVT that is controlled by oil pressure and that made me a little nervous but could not tell any difference. As mentioned above, a HDEO 10w30 will most likely fit your bill perfect as it will offer everything you want without the inflated price.

 

[A_Harman]

I was about to suggest an oil like Shell Rotella T5 10w30, but Jim Allen beat me to it!

Or maybe a syn-blend HM oil like Valvoline MaxLife.

 

[cancov]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
trying to clean up an engine at that mileage is somewhat an exercise in futility, not to mention a little dangerous. If you get carried away, you can break a lot of stuff loose all at once and plug oil passages, pickup screens, oil filters, etc. I killed a high mileage engine that way once. Cleaning is best done gradually but in reality, how many more miles are left in this thing.


I agree, I do not want a quick cleanup, but rather spread over 5,000-10,0000 miles. My thought was that these diesel applications in a 5w40 or maybe the Mobil 0W40 would do this job. I have no idea the maintenance before I got the truck 6 years ago. Since then, I've mostly put Quaker State High Mileage 10W30, but recently, since my commute has tripled, I've been using straight Quaker State 10W30. Last oil change, I had to change the valve cover gasket and the underside of the valve cover was caked with soot. I cleaned pretty well before reinstalling, but am wondering down deep in the motor. So I was going to just try a slow clean with a WIX or Purolator Filter. Just so the diesel applications are fine, I guess I'll go with a Walmart Rotella probably.

 

[ahoier]

It's up to you really. But yea, going too heavy in weight can't be good for the seals. As noted, I've always been a thinner vs. heavier kind of guy....running the lowest weight oil spec'd.

When you say "soot" are you referring to carbon and/or varnish build up? Or actual "soot"? That couldn't be good for the catalytic converter if it is truely "soot" hehe.

I personally have been running on and off runs of MMO in my motor oil, with no ill effects, 1 pint of MMO, to four and a half quarts of motor oil (typically, Pennzoil....) the oil still comes out dark after 3k....and as your situation, this car has an unknown service history too. I do know the "Next Oil Service" sticker in the windshield was stamped ~28k when I got the car - and it only had ~27k on the clock at the time. Still running great, now approaching 40k

It is my daily driver, and no problems thus far. In the beginning I had a problem with the t-stat, radiator fan relays, coolant temp sensor, etc...but other than that, got that all tamed, and it's not using as much gas as it was; was running super rich...lol.


I know there's a lot of people that swear by the HDEO oil in their GAS engines, but I'd personally go for the additive route, running the additive as directed for a standard OCI (3k is what MMO and Seafoam both state, when used in the crankcase....) as you don't necessarily want the harsh chemicals lingering in the engine for a long length of time. But like I said, I've used both MMO for 3k intervals, as well as Seafoam (at 1.5 oz. per quart, amounts to about 7 oz. in my application....) and haven't had a problem.

The only strange occurance is, when using the MMO for the first 2 3k runs in the crankcase, after about 1-2k with the MMO in the crankcase, the oil level would drop. But no noticable "leaks" anywhere....so I take it as that either the MMO must burn off eventually, after it "softens up" the carbon/varnish (underside of the filler cap is fairly clean too!) and suspends it within the motor oil to be drained out at 3k....

 

[Bladecutter]

Was it just the valve cover that was covered in carbon?
Was it actual sludge, or was it just burned on carbon?
How did the valve train look? Was that clean? Or was that area of the cylinder head covered in sludge, carbon, varnish, or was it clean and well oiled?

If the cylinder head and valve train is clean, but just carbon burned onto the valve cover, I wouldn't worry about it at all.

If you wanted to pull the oil pan and see if there's anything going on in the bottom side of the motor, that might tell you more about the engine.

I wouldn't go crazy about light carbon deposits.
If its thick sludgy stuff, then yes.

BC.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: cancov
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
trying to clean up an engine at that mileage is somewhat an exercise in futility, not to mention a little dangerous. If you get carried away, you can break a lot of stuff loose all at once and plug oil passages, pickup screens, oil filters, etc. I killed a high mileage engine that way once. Cleaning is best done gradually but in reality, how many more miles are left in this thing.


I agree, I do not want a quick cleanup, but rather spread over 5,000-10,0000 miles. My thought was that these diesel applications in a 5w40 or maybe the Mobil 0W40 would do this job. I have no idea the maintenance before I got the truck 6 years ago. Since then, I've mostly put Quaker State High Mileage 10W30, but recently, since my commute has tripled, I've been using straight Quaker State 10W30. Last oil change, I had to change the valve cover gasket and the underside of the valve cover was caked with soot. I cleaned pretty well before reinstalling, but am wondering down deep in the motor. So I was going to just try a slow clean with a WIX or Purolator Filter. Just so the diesel applications are fine, I guess I'll go with a Walmart Rotella probably.


Since you have been running QSHM for most of the six years you have owned the truck, and you still have a lot of carbon in the valve covers, maybe you do need something stronger to clean it out. It is a good thing that you have a long commute so that the oil can get up to temperature for a long period. Sludge forms in an engine when the oil can't get hot enough to drive off the water that comes from blow-by.

 

[cancov]

Originally Posted By: ahoier
When you say "soot" are you referring to carbon and/or varnish build up? Or actual "soot"? That couldn't be good for the catalytic converter if it is truely "soot" hehe.


Both cats were beat out a few years ago and a new muffler was installed. I'm pre-96 and don't have any emmisions complications with the state. So she is pretty open on here back end.

A few years ago, before I replaced the factory carb with a Weber 32/26, I removed the EGR valve and it was caked with carbon build up. I dug out a legitimate amount. However, with the new Weber, none of that EGR, vacuum lines and exhault enrichment comes into play. This just shows how the engine produced this carbon buildup.

Under the valve cover is probably better described as burned on carbon rather than sludge. It came off pretty easy with the 2700psi pressure washer, which I cleaned afterwards with ether to remove water. The head and valves weren't sludged over, but were not spotless either. They looked fine.

When I change the oil, there is no sludgy looking oil that comes out initially when I pull the plug but that may not be the best indication of the condition of the oil pan. It is really black and my oil change intervals are 3,000 miles.

My service manual doesn't specify for a specific viscosity but rather has the temperature chart and API SF, SF/CC or SF/CD. For my current temperature range, North Carolina in the summer, it looks as if 10w30 or 10W40 would be suffice. My intensions for the future would be 40 weight viscosity during the summer, perhaps a 5w40, and 30 weight viscosity in the winter, 5w30 or 10w30, whatever one gives the best performance with my truck. I'm just looking to do a little cleaning while I have these long commutes. They may end with a different position in the company. And as mentioned earlier, I'd rather clean slowly and safer than a hail mary and dislodge something too big to clog the filter or something else detramtic.