Oil for 78 VW Bus (hydraulic cam) in Los Angeles

[markd89]

Hi,

I'm driving a 78 Volkswagen Bus (2 liter air-cooled, hydraulic cam). I'm in LA. 50 degrees is a cold day. My oil temps are usually 180-210F. This is the Type IV engine which has a real oil-filter.

I've been using 10W-30 Dino oil (various brands, cheap) and changing about every 3000 miles. The owners manual from 1978 recommends 30 weight but that was before multi-weights were reliable (from what I heard).

I want to have good engine life, MPGs. The oil is also used for conducting heat away from the heads, so if there's anything that makes that work better (?) I'd be interested.

What do you recommend? Should I be using synthetic or diesel oil or?

Thanks,
Mark

 

[Audi Junkie]

Strait 30 seems like a more typial 30 weight recommendation for that engine, especially in your climate. 10w-30 dino is a great oil for most apps, but I would take a look at 15w-40 HD if you have high miles, consumption, low compression, smoking etc.

10w-30 or 10w-40 Hi-Miles oil is another alternative. Trip length and the factors I mentioned above would be the deciding factor.

Do you have a brand you like?

 

[Gunatics_Adler]

I also suggest a good HDEO. You may be able to track down some 10w30 diesel oil, which would be perfect. However, in LA you would be fine with a 15w40 as well. Rotella 5w40 has worked well for many people and is available at most common locations like Wal Mart

 

[fdcg27]

I used a straight 30 in my old air-cooled Vanagon during the warmer months, and 10W-40 during the winter.
If I had an air-cooled VW now, I'd probably go with 15W-40 spring, summer and fall, and maybe Rotella 10W-30 for winter.
I always did 3K changes.
This did not save the engine, however.
I had it apart at around 105K.
The cylinders still had hone marks, and the engine was internally very clean.
The VW had lost power, something the Type IV couldn't really spare in the Vanagon.
The cause turned out to be cracked heads, which I later learned were fairly common with the Type IV.
Still, an easy engine to R&R, as well as to rebuild.
I really liked the Vanagon, and I wouldn't mind finding another, although a double cab pickup would be really hip.

 

[mechtech2]

I was big on VWs [dune buggys and street cars] for a long time.
But this was years ago and oils are different now, and my understanding of oils is better.

We used heavy oils with the air cooled versions, and let them warm up in cold weather.

Anybody's x-30 or x-40 would be a good choice for you. If the engine is tired, I'd use the x-40.
The HDEO [diesel]oils are great.

 

[HyperJinx]

I would be curious to know what the cyl-head temp is with HD30 vs something else. If you dont have a head temp indicator, I would get one. I have had a few VW's and always stayed with the recommended 30wt

 

[markd89]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all of the interesting replies.

Here's some additional info based on your comments..

My CHT is usually in the 300's around town. Climbing the 405 freeway hill into the valley, it will get to 450F if I let it. Instead, I'm slowing down and going up it at 40 mph in 3rd gear which puts me at 420F. Flat ground at 70 mph I am at about 400 degrees CHT. I plan on doing tuning with a wideband sensor soon and if my 400+ CHT is due to mixture off, I'll fix that.

My trips are mostly short.

When looking for an HD oil, do I just look for a diesel oil, or is it specially noted somehow?

Thanks,
Mark

 

[ChiTDI]

I used 20w50 in a Type II bus for a long time in the Midwest. In LA with mild winters, mountains, and gridlocked freeways you could upgrade to HDEOs and do real well with them. Delo, Rotella and others are available in 15w40. Schaeffer's makes a semisyn in 15w40 if you're looking to change from conventional.

Welcome to BITOG !

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
I used a straight 30 in my old air-cooled Vanagon during the warmer months, and 10W-40 during the winter.
If I had an air-cooled VW now, I'd probably go with 15W-40 spring, summer and fall, and maybe Rotella 10W-30 for winter.
I always did 3K changes.
This did not save the engine, however.
I had it apart at around 105K.
The cylinders still had hone marks, and the engine was internally very clean.
The VW had lost power, something the Type IV couldn't really spare in the Vanagon.
The cause turned out to be cracked heads, which I later learned were fairly common with the Type IV.
Still, an easy engine to R&R, as well as to rebuild.
I really liked the Vanagon, and I wouldn't mind finding another, although a double cab pickup would be really hip.



+1

I'd use 15W-40 for most of the year, and maybe a 10W-30 if it gets much cooler than 50F...

 

[mrruffhouser]

Your engine, as you propably know is a "flat tappet" type engine that relies for a great deal of it's cooling on the oil. Having had early Porsches and VW's you need to be especially careful NOT to use the "starburst logo" oils. They do not contain the levels of zinc and phosphorous need to maintain yor engine.
I think the best are Brad Penn 20W-50 and Joe Gibbs racing oils.
You can go to Harley Davidson's, Amsoil and Porsches sites, to name a few that have excellent lab test results.
You need oil with 1200-1300ppm zinc and phosphorous to get long life from your engine. Belive me, you don't want to rebuild a 2.0 l engine. Harley oil costs a little more but you can always get it.
Mobil Delvac, Cheveron Delo and Petro-Canada Duron will also do.

 

[priler]

housers' info is right on,you need the correct amount of PH,Zn.(although my opinion differs with 20w-50)

remember also that the info on the manual was based on oil back then.

what your looking for is an API SH or SJ,or at the very minimum if you can't help it,SL. plus,in combination with,one that's ACEA A3/B3 would be even better.

like you know,these engines are very dependant on the oil for cooling.what this means to me is,you don't want an oil that pretty thick but you also don't want to go too thin.(lower than what was recommended)

personally,i would not use any xw-30 on any air cooled engine.these types of engines really take there toll on oil.basically,you want something with good ht/hs but at the same time is not too thick.that means a very specific target.

a good idea might be to mix 50% brad penn 20w-50 with 50% brad penn 0w-30 to get 10w-40.this way you'll be getting a synth-blend with a high TBN and a good amount of ZDDP.

...or you can go straight for RL 5w-40 or motul 300v 5w-40(great ht/hs but not too thick)...or just look for a regular dino oil in 10w-40 with the API above and do OCI more often or what the manual says for OCI.(just make sure it has about 1200-1300 ppm of PH and ZN)

the choices one had during the time this VW was made were not as good.(base stock wise)

by the way,getting best mpg AND best wear at the same time,tend to be conflicting.i don't think you'll notice much of a difference anyway.

anyway,that's just my opinion,what do i know.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Harley Davidson oil is bottled by Citgo. Not my 1st choice in a lubricant.

15w-40 is guaranteed to work best as long as the cold temps stay above +20f.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
markd89 - You are already using a suitable lubricant. The 10W-30 viscosity will do the job of heat transfer well and if you are not consuming or leaking it I would continue to use it!

If oil use is "high" then a 15W-40 viscosity "Mixed fleet" HDEO would perhaps be a wise choice

The engine in your model is robust and reliable and while early series VW engines performed better on monograde (SAE20W-20, SAE30) lubricants (oil cooler operation etc) your series is better suited to a multigrade

 

[VWguy]

HI markd89,
I used to work for the VW/Porsche dealer network back from 1973 to 1988. The dealers in So Cal used straight weight oils, VW used 30wt and Porsche used 40wt. I guess they felt the multi-grades were not as advanced as they are now. But today, I am sure all the dealers use a multi-grade. 20w-50 was and still is popular for the air-cooled VW/Porsche crowd. And I believe, I read somewhere on the internet that Castrol's 30wt was the "VW oil." It is still avail at stores such as Kragen, Auto-Zone, and Pep Boys in 30wt/40wt, and is still an "SL" rated oil.
Even though your 2.0L flat four has a flat tappet cam, I do not recall on any of the popular sites such as www.thesamba.com, www.shoptalkforums.com, or www.cal-look.com that there is a problem with wear from lack of the old school AW additives. But, it would not hurt to find and choose a lubricant that has some AW additives in it. I think most of the wear problems are happening with aftermarket cams with higher spring pressures. In defense of the newer oils, Chevron, Havoline, and Pennzoil all have Moly as an AW additive which should be adequate. As far as the HDEO (diesel) oils, here in So Cal, they are avail at the before mentioned retail outlets as well as the truck stops down in the harbor as well as other locations. Most popular is the 15w-40, as well as straight weights in 30wt and 40wt, for the detroit diesels. In fact, a while ago,I called the Chevron Tech Line to inquire if could use the Chevron Delo 30wt/40wt for my 1971 VW bus when it went back together with aftermarket cam/springs, and his response was yes, as long as it did not get too cold there. My concern was the newer Delo LE did not have enough AW additives. These are just my thoughts or opinions learned from a few years on bitog. I think most of my thoughts will parrallel the previous posts and maybe some of the experts will chime in. You have lots of options here in So Cal. Bill

 

[VWguy]

Oh yeah, in regards to your short trips. Most mechanics when performing engine repairs would remove the thermostat and warm up regulators whether it was the older Type 1 engine or the newer Type 4 engine, which is what you have. Opinions vary, but on those web sites I gave you in the previous thread, a lot of folks are reinstalling these parts. It is an easy task to inspect to see if a particular engine still has these parts still installed. So, just another task for you to contemplate.
And finally, WELCOME to BITOG. Pull up a comfortable chair and your favorite beverage, because school is in session. Bill

 

[berniedd]

My 1968 VW Beetle is still alive, thanks to Delo and Rotella 15W40 oils for diesel engines. It's very warm here in the tropics but LA isn't much different. If you still want to use oils for gas engines, Do not use SL or SM rated oils. You want SG or SH oils, what with their high phosphorus and zinc levels. And don't use E10 gasoline. I found out the hard way that VW magnesium and aluminum in the carburetor and engine don't like it.

 

[mechtech2]

berniedd - Ethanol is not going to hurt your carb, or somehow the magnesium alloy case - esp 10%.
It is METHANOL that is destructive. Maybe where you are at they use/used methanol.

BTW, any VW case that I have lit has had pretty worn tappet faces, and cams.

 

[berniedd]

Yes E10 is bad. We don't have methanol gas here. After a few months on E10, I opened up my carb for its yearly cleaning. I found a lot of corrosion in the float bowl - like a fungus that's a few millimeters thick. This never happened when I was on 100% premium gas. Fortunately it was only on the surface and I could easily remove it with a brush with brass bristles. I knew that the sending unit in the gas tank up front is made of the same material as the carb so I took it off too. Same corrosion was on its inside, but a whole lot more.

 

[mechtech2]

bernie - Using premium gas has nothing to do with it.

I could not get a fuel bowl that dirty if I tried to in a few months. I am not a fan of gasohol, but look elsewhere for your debris problems.

 

[markd89]

Hi Guys,

Thanks again for all the great advice. I found RotellaT at Kragen. Is a suitable Rotella or should I be looking for Rotella without the "T"

Thanks again
Mark