OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
I had all kinds of fun leaks on my Mustang when I changed it to M1 when I bought it. So I changed the gaskets affected and problem solved.
Synthetic Oil Article
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I have been running Mobil 1 15-50 EP and Mobil 1 10-30 EP in my '73 Cadillac for 80,000 miles since the motor was re-built. I think the biggest problem with running a synthetic in an older car (with the stock gaskets) that has never been rebuilt is the higher detergency and the thinner viscosity of synthetic. Mobile 1 15-50 is NOT as thick as Castrol 20-50 was years ago.
The synthetics from what I understand not only clean out the nooks and crannies of an older engine that has been run on dino which causes leaks they also "seep" (for lack of a better term) better which causes leaks and they probably do attack the gasket material that was used years ago.
However, if the engine is rebuilt as mine has been the new gaskets are probably made of the newer materials and therefore won't be attacked by the new synthetics.
As for ZDDP. They have taken that out of the dino's as well. The flat tappet engines need it especially for high lift cams and high pressure valvesprings such as in the old muscle cars. Mobil 1 15-50 EP has more than most at 1200 PPM whereas the older oils of the 70's and 80's had up to 1600PPM.
As for everyone parroting the propoganda spewed by the news media about Exxon/Mobil's profits. Just look at the profits the GOVERNMENT makes off of your gas and oil, and everything else. They make about 5 times what Exxon/Mobil made and that doesn't count the billions in taxes Exxon/mobil paid that year. About 45 billion if I remember correctly.
Furthermore oil companies show about .09 cents on the dollar profit while Microsoft shows about .30 cents for every dollar. Then you have the BANKS! They run at about .20 to .25 cents on the dollar and that doesn't count the trillions the treasury just printed up out of thin air to give them and we don't even get to see THEIR books so we really don't know what they really made.
When was the last time the government gave Exxon/Mobil a few trillion that WE have to pay for and didn't even bother to find out where it went? Then look at government profit which can't really be called profit because it is stolen and extorted from us.
Any greed on Exxon/Mobil's part pales in comparison when you look at the Big Government picture. At least with Exxon/Mobil you get a good product. With the Banks and the Government all you get is higher taxes, higher interest rates, government debt to pay for and Midnight Basketball.
I'd rather pay for a tankfull of gas and a quart of Mobil 1 than Head Start, Ferrari payments for the Wallstreet CEO's and house payments for illegal aliens! At least I can enjoy one of the favorite American pastimes of driving and go where I want to go.
What do you get for your money with illegal alien health care or 108 billion to the IMF? Maybe it's time to look at where the REAL greed is and it isn't at Exxon/Mobil. It's in Washington, D.C. The American "Politburo".
The synthetics from what I understand not only clean out the nooks and crannies of an older engine that has been run on dino which causes leaks they also "seep" (for lack of a better term) better which causes leaks and they probably do attack the gasket material that was used years ago.
However, if the engine is rebuilt as mine has been the new gaskets are probably made of the newer materials and therefore won't be attacked by the new synthetics.
As for ZDDP. They have taken that out of the dino's as well. The flat tappet engines need it especially for high lift cams and high pressure valvesprings such as in the old muscle cars. Mobil 1 15-50 EP has more than most at 1200 PPM whereas the older oils of the 70's and 80's had up to 1600PPM.
As for everyone parroting the propoganda spewed by the news media about Exxon/Mobil's profits. Just look at the profits the GOVERNMENT makes off of your gas and oil, and everything else. They make about 5 times what Exxon/Mobil made and that doesn't count the billions in taxes Exxon/mobil paid that year. About 45 billion if I remember correctly.
Furthermore oil companies show about .09 cents on the dollar profit while Microsoft shows about .30 cents for every dollar. Then you have the BANKS! They run at about .20 to .25 cents on the dollar and that doesn't count the trillions the treasury just printed up out of thin air to give them and we don't even get to see THEIR books so we really don't know what they really made.
When was the last time the government gave Exxon/Mobil a few trillion that WE have to pay for and didn't even bother to find out where it went? Then look at government profit which can't really be called profit because it is stolen and extorted from us.
Any greed on Exxon/Mobil's part pales in comparison when you look at the Big Government picture. At least with Exxon/Mobil you get a good product. With the Banks and the Government all you get is higher taxes, higher interest rates, government debt to pay for and Midnight Basketball.
I'd rather pay for a tankfull of gas and a quart of Mobil 1 than Head Start, Ferrari payments for the Wallstreet CEO's and house payments for illegal aliens! At least I can enjoy one of the favorite American pastimes of driving and go where I want to go.
What do you get for your money with illegal alien health care or 108 billion to the IMF? Maybe it's time to look at where the REAL greed is and it isn't at Exxon/Mobil. It's in Washington, D.C. The American "Politburo".
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Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Pablo
My bad. Going too fast. Still I can argue that more myths are killed here than perpetrated!
Listen - I know there are some common misconceptions that even make it through the BITOG screen. But I really don't see this site as a major myth inventor. Please tell me if I'm off base here.
I wasn't posting on the point one way or the other, just noting that you were quoting the wrong word
The one myth that apparently seems immune to death is the UOA can tell you how your engine is wearing one.....
I agree - this sucker is hard to kill!!
Originally Posted By: Pablo
My bad. Going too fast. Still I can argue that more myths are killed here than perpetrated!
Listen - I know there are some common misconceptions that even make it through the BITOG screen. But I really don't see this site as a major myth inventor. Please tell me if I'm off base here.
I wasn't posting on the point one way or the other, just noting that you were quoting the wrong word
The one myth that apparently seems immune to death is the UOA can tell you how your engine is wearing one.....
I agree - this sucker is hard to kill!!
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: tig1
I started using M1 oils in 1978 and haven't had any problems.
Tig1,
Not that M1 oils aren't excellent, but I'm sure they have made major changes since then. Plus with all the corporate greed squeezing going on it has to make you think that compromises have been made with all oils & companies in the name of profit no?
You forgot the GOVERNMENT greed that is squeezing the private sector. Every industry has had to make compromises in their product due to government taxation and regulations. Those that could left the country before they were put out of business.
Originally Posted By: tig1
I started using M1 oils in 1978 and haven't had any problems.
Tig1,
Not that M1 oils aren't excellent, but I'm sure they have made major changes since then. Plus with all the corporate greed squeezing going on it has to make you think that compromises have been made with all oils & companies in the name of profit no?
You forgot the GOVERNMENT greed that is squeezing the private sector. Every industry has had to make compromises in their product due to government taxation and regulations. Those that could left the country before they were put out of business.
Originally Posted By: Mark888
But one thing I do know is that XOM is not feeling any financial pressure.
That, actually, is the one thing you have No way of knowing.
Nice try though.
But one thing I do know is that XOM is not feeling any financial pressure.
That, actually, is the one thing you have No way of knowing.
Nice try though.
Sorry I was out for the night yesterday to see Star Trek, which was an awesome movie BTW.
I was opening up the M1 & XOM for discussion, I wasn't bashing M1 or XOM I was merely using them as an example of a big corporation that trims its fat to remain lean while glamoring everyone with fancy marketing to keep joe-consumer looking the other way.
I never said that M1 wasn't a good product, and it's a good product that I have used in the past and will probably use in the future. It worked very well in my Santa Fe, but Amsoil is doing a better job in the winter IMO. That doesn't make Amsoil better than M1 in all cases, just in my particular application IMO. That's all.
I don't blame XOM for doing what I think they are doing to their oils if the end result is still a robust enough oil to handle the job of modern engines. The point I was trying to make, which I don't think was clear, is why not spend less on marketing and put that into a more robust oil that kills all competitors hands down without a doubt and let the product market itself through word of mouth instead of fancy commercials? That is all!
Also it is other members of this board that use M1 religiously use TDT and other HDEO's from XOM because their basic 5w30 just don't have the robustness as the HDEO's do and they feel it's a better value. Meanwhile RP, Redline and Amsoils basic PCMO oils are more robust IMO than the basic M1 oils because IMO they spend more on their base stocks/additives and less on marketing.
I was opening up the M1 & XOM for discussion, I wasn't bashing M1 or XOM I was merely using them as an example of a big corporation that trims its fat to remain lean while glamoring everyone with fancy marketing to keep joe-consumer looking the other way.
I never said that M1 wasn't a good product, and it's a good product that I have used in the past and will probably use in the future. It worked very well in my Santa Fe, but Amsoil is doing a better job in the winter IMO. That doesn't make Amsoil better than M1 in all cases, just in my particular application IMO. That's all.
I don't blame XOM for doing what I think they are doing to their oils if the end result is still a robust enough oil to handle the job of modern engines. The point I was trying to make, which I don't think was clear, is why not spend less on marketing and put that into a more robust oil that kills all competitors hands down without a doubt and let the product market itself through word of mouth instead of fancy commercials? That is all!
Also it is other members of this board that use M1 religiously use TDT and other HDEO's from XOM because their basic 5w30 just don't have the robustness as the HDEO's do and they feel it's a better value. Meanwhile RP, Redline and Amsoils basic PCMO oils are more robust IMO than the basic M1 oils because IMO they spend more on their base stocks/additives and less on marketing.
Originally Posted By: peterdes
Originally Posted By: Mark888
But one thing I do know is that XOM is not feeling any financial pressure.
That, actually, is the one thing you have No way of knowing.
Nice try though.
Yes I do know that. To repeat, XOM is under less financial pressure than the boutique motor oil companies, and also those who don't produce crude like Ashland (Valvoline). I know that for a fact, bud.
Originally Posted By: Mark888
But one thing I do know is that XOM is not feeling any financial pressure.
That, actually, is the one thing you have No way of knowing.
Nice try though.
Yes I do know that. To repeat, XOM is under less financial pressure than the boutique motor oil companies, and also those who don't produce crude like Ashland (Valvoline). I know that for a fact, bud.
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Are Mobil 1 oils made of all Mobil ingredients,base stock,additives,etc?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Are Mobil 1 oils made of all Mobil ingredients,base stock,additives,etc?
AFAIK.
They are the world's largest producer of PAO and Ester base stocks as well.
Are Mobil 1 oils made of all Mobil ingredients,base stock,additives,etc?
AFAIK.
They are the world's largest producer of PAO and Ester base stocks as well.
OVERK1LL just because they are the worlds largest producer doesn't mean they are using more than everyone else in their oils. It would seem logical, but they could have say 50% PAO etc. content when others have say 70% or whatever the numbers are...
Again... Not bashing M1, just saying it's hard to know if they keep everything a secret.
What is mind boggling is that they dance around the questions without exact answers when questioned. Fail certian tests here/there that others haven't, and then launch a strong marketing campaign every time they are in question to glamour Joe consumer against any speculation that may be arising.
Also don't you find it odd that they are sponsoring this site? Do you think it is to see what the story on the street is so to speak?
Where is Valvoline, Castrol, Heck even the smaller companies that are trying to gain market share like Amsoil Corporate/RP/Red Line?
Sure we have Schaffers, but that's because of the connection to Bob no doubt...
Why not just come out with what your formula is made of. You already have the largest market share and the largest amount of resources to smoosh the competition so why worry about revealing a little bit of info which would go a long way in providing answers to uncertianty?
They can only use the "Deny Deny Deny" secretive, dance around tactic that I think they are for so long before speculation gets the best of people IMO.
The crazy thing is they will have spent so much money in marketing to try and steer the ship the other way in peoples minds than they would just revealing a bit of info and letting the product speak for itself.
I just don't get it...
(Again not bashing M1, just opening it up for discussion.)
Again... Not bashing M1, just saying it's hard to know if they keep everything a secret.
What is mind boggling is that they dance around the questions without exact answers when questioned. Fail certian tests here/there that others haven't, and then launch a strong marketing campaign every time they are in question to glamour Joe consumer against any speculation that may be arising.
Also don't you find it odd that they are sponsoring this site? Do you think it is to see what the story on the street is so to speak?
Where is Valvoline, Castrol, Heck even the smaller companies that are trying to gain market share like Amsoil Corporate/RP/Red Line?
Sure we have Schaffers, but that's because of the connection to Bob no doubt...
Why not just come out with what your formula is made of. You already have the largest market share and the largest amount of resources to smoosh the competition so why worry about revealing a little bit of info which would go a long way in providing answers to uncertianty?
They can only use the "Deny Deny Deny" secretive, dance around tactic that I think they are for so long before speculation gets the best of people IMO.
The crazy thing is they will have spent so much money in marketing to try and steer the ship the other way in peoples minds than they would just revealing a bit of info and letting the product speak for itself.
(Again not bashing M1, just opening it up for discussion.)
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: StevieC
OVERK1LL just because they are the worlds largest producer doesn't mean they are using more than everyone else in their oils. It would seem logical, but they could have say 50% PAO etc. content when others have say 70% or whatever the numbers are...
The question wasn't as to M1's PAO and Ester content. It was whether they use their own products in their oil. I stated that they are the world's largest producer of both of those things to support my assumption that they only use their own products in their oils.
Quote:
Again... Not bashing M1, just saying it's hard to know if they keep everything a secret.
That is their right. You don't have to like it.
Quote:
What is mind boggling is that they dance around the questions without exact answers when questioned.
They do not need to provide exact answers. They have a sheet of manufacturer approvals and certifications for their oils as long as my arm.
Quote:
Fail certian tests here/there that others haven't,
You mean ALLEGEDLY fail A CERTAIN TEST. Which the API never verified and Exxon-Mobil DID dispute. Just never took legal action.
Quote:
and then launch a strong marketing campaign every time they are in question to glamour Joe consumer against any speculation that may be arising.
What advertising campaign? They aren't the ones telling people to "think with their dipstick".
Quote:
Also don't you find it odd that they are sponsoring this site?
Is it odd Lubrizol sponsors this site? AMSOIL?
Quote:
Do you think it is to see what the story on the street is so to speak?
I imagine they monitor what is posted here. As they likely did prior to being a sponsor.
Quote:
Where is Valvoline, Castrol, Heck even the smaller companies that are trying to gain market share like Amsoil Corporate/RP/Red Line?
Why not ask them? After all, you are a $100.00 site supporter, I doubt it would take much in the way of a financial layout to have a Valvoline logo on here......
Quote:
Sure we have Schaffers, but that's because of the connection to Bob no doubt...
Or they feel the site is worth sponsoring.......
Quote:
Why not just come out with what your formula is made of. You already have the largest market share and the largest amount of resources to smoosh the competition so why worry about revealing a little bit of info which would go a long way in providing answers to uncertianty?
Because they don't have to.
Quote:
They can only use the "Deny Deny Deny" secretive, dance around tactic that I think they are for so long before speculation gets the best of people IMO.
Really? It's been working successfully for almost 40 years.
Quote:
The crazy thing is they will have spent so much money in marketing to try and steer the ship the other way in peoples minds than they would just revealing a bit of info and letting the product speak for itself.
They don't really spend all that much on marketing. Look at Lucas for example. Castrol?
They DO spend a LOT of certifications and approvals though, probably moreso than any other oil company.
But apparently that means nothing......
Quote:
I just don't get it...
(Again not bashing M1, just opening it up for discussion.)
Pretty slanted "discussion" IMHO......
OVERK1LL just because they are the worlds largest producer doesn't mean they are using more than everyone else in their oils. It would seem logical, but they could have say 50% PAO etc. content when others have say 70% or whatever the numbers are...
The question wasn't as to M1's PAO and Ester content. It was whether they use their own products in their oil. I stated that they are the world's largest producer of both of those things to support my assumption that they only use their own products in their oils.
Quote:
Again... Not bashing M1, just saying it's hard to know if they keep everything a secret.
That is their right. You don't have to like it.
Quote:
What is mind boggling is that they dance around the questions without exact answers when questioned.
They do not need to provide exact answers. They have a sheet of manufacturer approvals and certifications for their oils as long as my arm.
Quote:
Fail certian tests here/there that others haven't,
You mean ALLEGEDLY fail A CERTAIN TEST. Which the API never verified and Exxon-Mobil DID dispute. Just never took legal action.
Quote:
and then launch a strong marketing campaign every time they are in question to glamour Joe consumer against any speculation that may be arising.
What advertising campaign? They aren't the ones telling people to "think with their dipstick".
Quote:
Also don't you find it odd that they are sponsoring this site?
Is it odd Lubrizol sponsors this site? AMSOIL?
Quote:
Do you think it is to see what the story on the street is so to speak?
I imagine they monitor what is posted here. As they likely did prior to being a sponsor.
Quote:
Where is Valvoline, Castrol, Heck even the smaller companies that are trying to gain market share like Amsoil Corporate/RP/Red Line?
Why not ask them? After all, you are a $100.00 site supporter, I doubt it would take much in the way of a financial layout to have a Valvoline logo on here......
Quote:
Sure we have Schaffers, but that's because of the connection to Bob no doubt...
Or they feel the site is worth sponsoring.......
Quote:
Why not just come out with what your formula is made of. You already have the largest market share and the largest amount of resources to smoosh the competition so why worry about revealing a little bit of info which would go a long way in providing answers to uncertianty?
Because they don't have to.
Quote:
They can only use the "Deny Deny Deny" secretive, dance around tactic that I think they are for so long before speculation gets the best of people IMO.
Really? It's been working successfully for almost 40 years.
Quote:
The crazy thing is they will have spent so much money in marketing to try and steer the ship the other way in peoples minds than they would just revealing a bit of info and letting the product speak for itself.
They don't really spend all that much on marketing. Look at Lucas for example. Castrol?
They DO spend a LOT of certifications and approvals though, probably moreso than any other oil company.
But apparently that means nothing......
Quote:
(Again not bashing M1, just opening it up for discussion.)
Pretty slanted "discussion" IMHO......
Last edited by a moderator:
StevieC,
All good points from Overk1ll, Also XM doesn't tear down other producers product to sell their own. And really they do more advertising for other aspects of their company than their oil division.
I feel M1 has led the way all these years and has really brought the other companies along in their synthetic oil research and developement of synthetic oil. XM leads the world in synthetic motor oil production. Most often they are the ones to come up with new formulations for auto manf and as M1 developes, the others follow.
All good points from Overk1ll, Also XM doesn't tear down other producers product to sell their own. And really they do more advertising for other aspects of their company than their oil division.
I feel M1 has led the way all these years and has really brought the other companies along in their synthetic oil research and developement of synthetic oil. XM leads the world in synthetic motor oil production. Most often they are the ones to come up with new formulations for auto manf and as M1 developes, the others follow.
OVERK1LL, well answered and fair enough!
Thank you.
Thank you.
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