Lately a few people have been commenting about ring sticking and the correlation to using ester based oils!!! Is this true and if so, is GC in that category?
Are ester based oils bad?
- Thread starter brianpavlovic
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All that would be news to me.
huh?
Please post the link to these "complaints".
Please post the link to these "complaints".
No, Ester based oils are the priemer choice in lubricants! They are full of BS if they are trying to blame ring sticking on ester based lubricants! That would be like someone blameing coroded computer conections on gold terminals! So far we do not know that GC is ester based!! The last I heard it was PAO based with some special ester's added to it. Big difference between PAO plus some ester's versus Ester based with some PAO added! Almost all oils have some ester content the difference is in how much and what type and what they are being used for!
Ring sticking today is primarily caused by two things poorly designed ring and piston or by over heating the engine.Prior to the modern hockey puck skirtless piston with the rings within 1/8 of an inch of the crown over heating was the primary cause of ring sticking. I would imagine that over extended OCI with cheap oils and the use of things like no-smoke can also lead to this!
Ring sticking today is primarily caused by two things poorly designed ring and piston or by over heating the engine.Prior to the modern hockey puck skirtless piston with the rings within 1/8 of an inch of the crown over heating was the primary cause of ring sticking. I would imagine that over extended OCI with cheap oils and the use of things like no-smoke can also lead to this!
As JB indicated, esters are probably the least likely component in a motor oil formulation to cause ring sticking.
Ester based motor oils typically have high flash points. Redline oils, all are listed at 480F+ and have low, single digit, Noack volatility ratings.
Due to the polar nature, esters have the ability to "creep" and work into blind areas such as a ring pack. Modern penetrating oil formulations may include an ester component for this very reason.
Esters will even migrate out thru the cap of a partially used bottle of oil & make the outside slimy.
As a collector of chainsaws, the best product I've found for freeing up stuck piston rings is the ester based Mobil MX2T 2 cycle oil poured directly onto the piston/rings!
Ester based motor oils typically have high flash points. Redline oils, all are listed at 480F+ and have low, single digit, Noack volatility ratings.
Due to the polar nature, esters have the ability to "creep" and work into blind areas such as a ring pack. Modern penetrating oil formulations may include an ester component for this very reason.
Esters will even migrate out thru the cap of a partially used bottle of oil & make the outside slimy.
As a collector of chainsaws, the best product I've found for freeing up stuck piston rings is the ester based Mobil MX2T 2 cycle oil poured directly onto the piston/rings!
Yes, ester based oils are horrible... they give terrible UOAs, they absorb water, and they accelerate soft metal bearing wear.
Especially Redline motor oil (5W-30 is the worst offender). If you have any (5W-30 preferred, but 10W-30 and 5W-20 would work), I have a friend who is using them in a scientific experiment designed to measure decreased oil performance with ester-based oils. I'll pay for you to ship whatever you have to me. Thanks!
(1 ticket, first class please!)
Especially Redline motor oil (5W-30 is the worst offender). If you have any (5W-30 preferred, but 10W-30 and 5W-20 would work), I have a friend who is using them in a scientific experiment designed to measure decreased oil performance with ester-based oils. I'll pay for you to ship whatever you have to me. Thanks!
(1 ticket, first class please!)
I've heard that heavily polar ester-only base oils can have problems with overswelling seals and "competing" at metal surfaces with additives. I guess the problems might be premature main seal wear although they are supposed to help with startup.
I've heard some of the Mobil 1 weights don't contain any esters in favor of their proprietary alkylated napthalene. The AN is supposed to have many of the benefits of esters without as much seal swell or competition for metal surfaces.
I've heard some of the Mobil 1 weights don't contain any esters in favor of their proprietary alkylated napthalene. The AN is supposed to have many of the benefits of esters without as much seal swell or competition for metal surfaces.
PAO cause seals to shrink, Esters cause seals to swell, with the correct blend synthetic oils will not cause seals to fail. Aircraft turbine engines use ester based oils but they also use specially made seals and gaskets. Typically synthetic automotive oils have 90-98% PAO's with the rest being mineral oils and ester with some additives making up less then 25 by volume. Syn-blends average about 50% PAO's and the rest being mineral and base additive package. For those of you that haven't heard it, PAO IS A PETROLEUM PRODUCT. IT IS MADE FROM HYDROCARBONS. IT IS NOT A PRODUCT OF COOKING OIL RECYCLING.
LOL! yes, send me all your Redline...
PAO is not necessarily made from petroleum. The primary source for PAO is ethylene gas. ExxonMobil produces ethylene using ethane separated from natural gas. Other companies produce ethylene by cracking petroleum products. Among other things, ethylene gas is used to gas green tomatoes to make them red.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene
http://www.exxonmobil.co.uk/UK-English/Operations/UK_OP_Chem_FifeProd.asp
Esters may be made from a reaction of vegetable oils with alcohols.
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