When is cold too cold for 10W-30?
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When you are talking about 10w-30 at low temps are you talking about pouring it or its ability to lubricate? And is the question directed to the cranking and starting or the time between engine start and full temp. Does a 5w-30 (or 0w-30) warm up quicker than a 10w-30? I would like an oil thin enough to allow the started to turn quickly and an oil that would warm up quicker. This board talks all the time about thin oil but I wonder if there is a difference in warm up time. I think that during the warm up period is were the wear occurs and I see no tests that show performance during this critical period. I think that may people get wound around those specs that are easy to produce and that there is little info on things that are difficult to test and repeat. Have you ever seen a test that shows warm up times for engine oil?
I live in San Diego, and I doubt it ever gets to 30oF at the coldest.
That said, I feel even 5w30 is too thick for modern vechicles, and 10w30...well, Im sure you can guess how I feel about that weight.
Currently running 2.5w30 and my motor is loving it.
That said, I feel even 5w30 is too thick for modern vechicles, and 10w30...well, Im sure you can guess how I feel about that weight.
Currently running 2.5w30 and my motor is loving it.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: Dr_No
My owners manual says 10w30 is good to -18 c, then 5w30 is preferred below that.
Okay, that converts over to about -0.39 Fahrenheit; so TallPaul, you're right.
How many places in the states get down that cold?
0°F .... That's a heat wave!
When you start to approach 0°F at night you can definitly notice a difference in 10W and 5W during start up. A full synthetic will probably help you out some but for MN winters a synthetic 5W or even 0W can work wonders if your vehicle sits for long periods. So I guess that manufacture recommendation is pretty close.
Originally Posted By: Dr_No
My owners manual says 10w30 is good to -18 c, then 5w30 is preferred below that.
Okay, that converts over to about -0.39 Fahrenheit; so TallPaul, you're right.
How many places in the states get down that cold?
0°F .... That's a heat wave!
Originally Posted By: remmious
A full synthetic will probably help you out some but for MN winters a synthetic 5W or even 0W can work wonders if your vehicle sits for long periods. So I guess that manufacture recommendation is pretty close.
Sits between start ups you mean?
A full synthetic will probably help you out some but for MN winters a synthetic 5W or even 0W can work wonders if your vehicle sits for long periods. So I guess that manufacture recommendation is pretty close.
Sits between start ups you mean?
Originally Posted By: hannaco
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Dr_No said:How many places in the states get down that cold?
Lots of places. Let's see. MN, NH, VT, upstate NY, MN, ID, MT, WY, ND, SD, north NV, north UT, Sierras CA, Cascades OR & Wa.
And much of Michigan. It once hit -53F in Pellston, Michigan. And that is in the lower peninsula.
Detroit metro area is generally the warmest part of Michigan and that is where I live, so usually 0F with a week of slightly sub zero.
Originally Posted By: Eddie
I wonder if we are overlooking one important aspect of cold start requirements. A thinner oil at startup and the first minutes permit's necessary lubrication to the valve mechanisms, rocker arms and/or can followers, timing chain if used and other critical parts. Just being able to start the engine is the most important of course but, other lubrications issues are very important too. I; like Mokanic, wonder why use a 10w30 if Maxlife 5w30 is available? JMO Ed
+1
I keep my cars till the bitter end. I'm shooting for well over 400,000 miles on my Honda before overhaul. Better cold flow mean less start up wear and faster moving oil when cold. I will be using some 10w-30 in the warmer months. When I was much younger and silly I ran 30 wt in my 85 Toyota in the winter once. It was a real slug when cold.
For the sake of comparison there is significant amount of time difference, IMO, on the time the oil pressure light takes to go out on my 93 Civic when running a dino 5w-30 vs. Delo 15w-40. Before you flame me I ran it for a short period of time to try to slow down an oil leak on my 93 Civic during an Auto-Rx rinse. I dumped the Delo before it dipped below 40 degrees. I'm sure the difference will be less when compared to 10w. If you trade in your cars & trucks in before 200,000 miles it probably doesn't matter. You are splitting hairs. If you sell your car to me it will matter since I will ask why you didn't run a 5w-30 synthetic in the winter for less start up wear???
I wonder if we are overlooking one important aspect of cold start requirements. A thinner oil at startup and the first minutes permit's necessary lubrication to the valve mechanisms, rocker arms and/or can followers, timing chain if used and other critical parts. Just being able to start the engine is the most important of course but, other lubrications issues are very important too. I; like Mokanic, wonder why use a 10w30 if Maxlife 5w30 is available? JMO Ed
+1
I keep my cars till the bitter end. I'm shooting for well over 400,000 miles on my Honda before overhaul. Better cold flow mean less start up wear and faster moving oil when cold. I will be using some 10w-30 in the warmer months. When I was much younger and silly I ran 30 wt in my 85 Toyota in the winter once. It was a real slug when cold.
For the sake of comparison there is significant amount of time difference, IMO, on the time the oil pressure light takes to go out on my 93 Civic when running a dino 5w-30 vs. Delo 15w-40. Before you flame me I ran it for a short period of time to try to slow down an oil leak on my 93 Civic during an Auto-Rx rinse. I dumped the Delo before it dipped below 40 degrees. I'm sure the difference will be less when compared to 10w. If you trade in your cars & trucks in before 200,000 miles it probably doesn't matter. You are splitting hairs. If you sell your car to me it will matter since I will ask why you didn't run a 5w-30 synthetic in the winter for less start up wear???
Originally Posted By: hannaco
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Dr_No said:How many places in the states get down that cold?
Lots of places. Let's see. MN, NH, VT, upstate NY, MN, ID, MT, WY, ND, SD, north NV, north UT, Sierras CA, Cascades OR & Wa.
Northern Arizona, most of California on the Eastern side of the Sierras, the Sierras as you said
http://www.tahoetopia.com/html/webcams/truckeedowntown.html
Far Northeastern California. Alturas gets temps well below zero F.
Technically speaking, by definition of the SAE passenger car oil grading system in relation to cold cranking and cold pumping test, 10w-xx is tested at -13F for cold cranking and -22F degrees for cold pumping (-25C and -30C)(they test cold pumping 5C colder than cold cranking so if an oil will allow an engine to crank, it will actually pump). Sooooooooooo, -13F is about the lowest safe limit for 10w-xx where a good battery will actually start the engine and the oil will pump through the oil pump. Most manuals list 0 degrees F as the limit. I'd say -5F is as low as you'd want to go; I've started my car at -15F with 10w-30 and a thick oil additive...won't be doing that again anytime soon!
With synthetics, I'd say it's not even an issue as the cold cranking and cold pumping numbers are roughly twice as better than a dino in the 10w-30 grade, and pour points are much lower.
With synthetics, I'd say it's not even an issue as the cold cranking and cold pumping numbers are roughly twice as better than a dino in the 10w-30 grade, and pour points are much lower.
Thanks for stopping by Drew - good info!
I really like my 125 watt oil pan heating pad. I went out on a 15 F day and shot the pan with an IR thermometer. It read 65F on the outside of the pan. Starts up beautifully. Only problem is at work I have no place to plug in, but then 5 pm is not as cold as 7 am, and at least I reduce my cold starts by at least 50%. Last winter without the heater, 10w40 was a bit rough to start on some of the colder days.
With a full synthetic why would it matter? Unless the temp. dropped below the pour point? The synthetic oil is going to act in a specific manner down to the pour point....Right?
Originally Posted By: Greggy_D
TropArtic 10w-30 has a pour point of -33F and a CCV of 5,900 at -25C. Not bad if I do say for a $1.68/quart oil.
It's what I have running in the Taurus as we speak and will run through March '08.
Trop Artic 10w-30 sucks now unfortunately; it used to be 3,500 cP CCS and 13,000 cP MRV, making it on par with most synthetic 10w-30s.
That's what I had in my car when I started it at 15 below and it sounded like, as I put it in a post I made about the experience (and it was doped with a full bottle of SLOB) a coffe can full of BBs falling down Mt. Everest. It cranked sloooooooooooooooow but fired right up and the oil pressure light was out within 5 seconds.
TropArtic 10w-30 has a pour point of -33F and a CCV of 5,900 at -25C. Not bad if I do say for a $1.68/quart oil.
It's what I have running in the Taurus as we speak and will run through March '08.
Trop Artic 10w-30 sucks now unfortunately; it used to be 3,500 cP CCS and 13,000 cP MRV, making it on par with most synthetic 10w-30s.
That's what I had in my car when I started it at 15 below and it sounded like, as I put it in a post I made about the experience (and it was doped with a full bottle of SLOB) a coffe can full of BBs falling down Mt. Everest. It cranked sloooooooooooooooow but fired right up and the oil pressure light was out within 5 seconds.
You ask why does the cold matter if you use synthetic inferring that you don't really need a pan heater because the synthetic oil handles things. I think yoiu have to consider that heating the oil in the pan also heats other parts of the engine and that has to help when going from start-up to running temperature. I have a cabin in the mountains and we use pan heaters to great effect during the winter. The part I like is that the heater works right away and that makes it worth the trouble.
I've used 10W30 in -40F many times. Never used a block heater, although they would be nice. Never had any problems, and always got high milage out of the 1/2 ton trucks.
Merkava_4, I agree with Drew99GT's advice. My '97 Camry owner's manual says 10W-30 is good to 0°F. That's about right. Conventional wisdom says to safely pump oil through an engine, you want to be 20°F above the pour point. Why such a big margin? Well, the pour point is only 5°F above the temperature where oil won't move after 5 seconds on an inclined surface!
I've taken to plugging in my block heater when it gets colder than -15C outside, and I'm running 5W20 synthetic this winter.
I blame this website for my newly developed cold start phobia. Is there a scientific term for this condition? Lubriphobia, perhaps?
I blame this website for my newly developed cold start phobia. Is there a scientific term for this condition? Lubriphobia, perhaps?
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