Nah, agents aren’t colluding in general, you guys are pawns in the game.Well I guess if our numbers align with the appraisers numbers that align with the banks numbers there has to be more to it than that.
Would you agree or are we all in colusion?
TH
I'll document my FSBO journey here on BITOG for everyone to see in this thread: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/my-for-sale-by-owner-journey-home-sale.380572/Do it yourself.
You can list on MLS for $100 via 3rd parties and do the rest with a real estate attorney. Boom, no agent needed.You’re getting access to the MLS with an agent, that’s probably an 80-90% reason.
You’re right on with your remarks.Its not skewed. There are multiple other paths you can take to sell a house on your own. You pay an agent for their experience and expertise. If you or anyone else is so smart and know how to do it, do it on your own and leave Realtors out of it. Most will not because you don't know what you are doing and that comes with a price. If you want to linit what we earn based on that, let me limnit what you earn.
TH
I don't even know where to begin with these comments.
First, I agree with Alarmguys comments, my fee's are my fees and if you don't want to pay them, move on.
DF at 1% commision, who do you think is going to take the risk to advertise and market your property? Do you have any clue how much E&O insurance is these days? Oh, you didn't think about that did you?
Your commebts are laughable about what we do. If tyhat's how you feel, why bother? Do it yourself. You won't because you do not have the knowledge to do what we do and as you posted, you hired a bottom of the barrel broker once and they sukked. How do you know they even got you full price? You do not but that's OK because you looked on Zillow and found a price but what you don't know is how large the margin of error is with Zestimates.
I wish you the best off you inherited, no cost property. You will be content getting whatever you get but I [romise you that no agent who is worth anyting is going to show it, bring a buyer and write a contract for 1%. Tats not worth ghetting out of bed for.
What is it that you do for a living and what do you make?
TH
Why? A property is most people’s largest purchase. And is a major source of savings or estate in the long run. People shop for deals and sales. Bigger transactions, including the actual buyer-seller are negotiated. Most everything in this world is (except the thieves at Carmax, lol). So why shouldn’t informed customers expect a very clear basis for what value and tangible product they’re getting, and negotiate accordingly?It’s absolutely laughable, ridiculous and ignorant how armchair home sellers want to tell another profession, how much money to make.
You’re 100% right they should get on with their lives, sell their own homes and stop knocking other peoples business and professions
I would love to know what everybody does in day-to-day activities and list their income so I could tear their professions apart.
Well I think that is the actual ask. Lots of times it is said that folks don’t know what they’re doing. I don’t know. But I’ve never listed a property, only ever bought. So it’s an honest question. What dont people know??!? How to take and upload photos? Measure size of a home? Write a few paragraphs? Create adds? Correlate data to make an estimate on valuation? Draw lines between good and bad neighborhoods? That’s where I think most folks start to draw a blank.Absolutely ridiculous, they have no clue what they’re doing and even when they think they had a successful sale, the chances of far greater they undersold the house.
But forget, all that I have no problem with anybody selling their own house, it’s the ridiculous comments about an industry they have absolutely zero experience and knowledge in.
Ive had this discussion many times and I have no skin in it either. I was one of the top agents in the NY Metro area and one of the most trained and educated. Not going into specifics for that reason but I know what I am talking about.Why? A property is most people’s largest purchase. And is a major source of savings or estate in the long run. People shop for deals and sales. Bigger transactions, including the actual buyer-seller are negotiated. Most everything in this world is (except the thieves at Carmax, lol). So why shouldn’t informed customers expect a very clear basis for what value and tangible product they’re getting, and negotiate accordingly?
I don’t really have a dog in the fight, but that ask is reasonable imo.
That’s valid, but there is a difference imo. In many cases there is a specific skill. A specific product.
And it’s reasonable in other places to ask too. If I don’t have an AC machine, I can’t work on my car’s AC. So I have to pay someone to do that work. But it doesn’t mean I can’t shop who will vac a car for less money. A lower overhead shop will charge less, excellent. Is it such a bad thing to ask?
And I’ve seen a LOT of bad listings, bad responsiveness, lack of knowledge. I’m not saying a realtor shouldn’t get a commission. But some listings aren’t great. Yet the asking prices are similar. Is the realtor selling, or is the property selling itself?
Well I think that is the actual ask. Lots of times it is said that folks don’t know what they’re doing. I don’t know. But I’ve never listed a property, only ever bought. So it’s an honest question. What dont people know??!? How to take and upload photos? Measure size of a home? Write a few paragraphs? Create adds? Correlate data to make an estimate on valuation? Draw lines between good and bad neighborhoods? That’s where I think most folks start to draw a blank.
It’s not like someone is coming out to say, “it costs $1000 for a legit realtor to list a property in the MLS” or something along those lines….
And of course, no legal advice, no financial advice, no inspections by the agent.
So it’s a legit question. Maybe not even salient to the lawsuit. But if the commission claims are tied to MLS and other fees and other value added, understanding what it is, is useful for all. Not just that someone not exposed has no idea what they’re doing.
Except if you want the most amount of people to see your house, good news is, since you inherited it limiting showings to only people who will look at for sale buy owners, you will most likely be happy with whatever you get out of it.I'll document my FSBO journey here on BITOG for everyone to see in this thread: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/my-for-sale-by-owner-journey-home-sale.380572/
You can list on MLS for $100 via 3rd parties and do the rest with a real estate attorney. Boom, no agent needed.
So you’re saying agents will not show his house despite being listed on the MLS? You need to specifically look for FSBO listings?Except if you want the most amount of people to see your house, good news is, since you inherited it limiting showings to only people who will look at for sale buy owners, you will most likely be happy with whatever you get out of it.
Im curious, how many agencies have you spoke to and got quoted 6%?
I know different areas of the country are higher but 6% is pretty rare.
I appreciate the discourse. Then don’t reply, don’t get caught up, I know I’m replying, but it’s fine if you stay away!Ive had this discussion many times and I have no skin in it either. I was one of the top agents in the NY Metro area and one of the most trained and educated. Not going into specifics for that reason but I know what I am talking about.
My post #58 is my statement and that sums it up. It's more to do with the media and this thread is a perfect example. The media says commissions will get hit and people in this forum and the media think the industry is going to get crushed because of this ruling. No, not a chance so its pointless going through your long post because we have to admit I spend to much time and my posts long enough. Im not getting into bringing you car into fixing it because the air conditioner doesnt work.
People pay for services since the beginning of time, if you dont want a service dont use it. You question fees on something you dont need, yet 1,2,3% brokers have been around for decades now, just use one, most dont and many, many have gone out of business, Imagine that. So how can one complain? there are your commissions, look it up, list your home for 1%.
For some magical reason people fail to realize this talk has been around for 50,60, 70 years. Same type of mentality real estate firms make to much money. Post #58 states nothing changes and why. That is all I am saying. Nothing is going to change, unlike a small percentage of the population and a large percentage of the media no one cares. Oh, how the internet was going to do away with the real estate commissions, one by one those companies borderline went out of business. Im not sure Zillow even makes money I believe they have a negative P/E ratio still but they get all their information from MLS.
BTW- 10% of the homes are sold FSBO - For sale by owner, the internet didnt change anything, might have made it harder in fact. Gone are the local newspapers.
Of that 10% half of those sellers knew the buyer, so 5% sold to strangers.
1% to 3% brokers are around, so what is the problem if you want one? go get one. *LOL*
That fact is, people hire an agent to sell their home and the fact is buyers want to work with agents. Nothing is going to change that.
I swear I wont let myself get caught up in this thread. Come back to me in a year or five years, it will be the same discussion and people will still have agents handling their transactions.
Here is one small thing never mentioned when people question what agencies do. They bring buyers into homes. We can acknowledge you need to show your home to buyers.
Buyers DO NOT want to deal with For Sale by Owners, OMG the stories.
One can not possibly think that a buyer looking for a home wants to search for sale by owners, then on a Saturday go out to look at homes talk 4 to 8 different sales people (the owners are the salespeople as they are selling the home) homes all being sold by owners.
Trusting each and every one of them, telling them all the great things about their home and why its the best, all the time the buyer wants nothing but to get out of the house and away from them. They have to repeat this week after week, different owner each time/
Then there is the real estate agent who builds a relationship with them, they can talk honestly about what they like and hate about any house they see. They can see all areas and all homes without getting stuck entertaining a homeowner who wants to sell them a home they have no interest in and they have to do that with every FSBO they see.
This is why real estate will always be a service people will look for, in fact, hands down the most successful service industry in the country but it makes a great news item that the media KNOWS you will click on. Any product or any successful business it wide open to misinformation from people who have no knowledge of a particular industry.
PS. I think you know me well enough, hope nothing I wrote sounds personal in answering your question, not my intention at all, I honestly only care about misinformation, and in this case, Im telling everyone, the real estate agencies are NOT going to get crushed.
It's easy to read text the wrong way and one of the ways the media keeps people tuned in.
Can things evolved over time? Sure, what industry doesnt but one thing for sure, serious buyers will always be with real estate agents and avoid FSBO in the vast, vast majority of cases, like its been for 50+ years.
BTW- it's easy to sell your own hose if you vastly under price it.
Not at all, dont take my word for it. Sell it yourself, Im good with that. One fact is you limit yourself to the vast pool of buyers out there as up to 90% of them use agents.I appreciate the discourse. Then don’t reply, don’t get caught up, I know I’m replying, but it’s fine if you stay away!
Don’t use an analog of people shopping for price and a deal for a service rendered.
But note that just saying “OMG the stories” doesn’t answer the question. The reality is that the answer we keep getting is that:
- the layperson doesn’t know what they’re doing
- the realtor does so much
- oh the things we’ve seen
Yet the things the realtor does, and the issues that have been seen, aren’t defined or described at all.
So in other words they might as well not be real.
Which drives peoples’ optic on why would they need to pay someone 1,2,3,6% to do this?
Just to take your word for it?!?
Tangible product is what is being asked. Sure you might argue that the property was sold.. but that’s not what is being asked.
This seems more and more like the Wizard of Oz… don’t look behind the curtain, there is nothing to see behind the curtain. Go away.
I know it’s hard to get points across in text sometimes. Frankly I think this is good discussion to answer a curiosity.
Yes but people shop for oil change prices often. And some folks look to verify that a new filter is on the car, and the oil is golden color…. There are tangible markers besides just getting a bill and the job done.Not at all, dont take my word for it. Sell it yourself, Im good with that. One fact is you limit yourself to the vast pool of buyers out there as up to 90% of them use agents.
Hey! I change my own oil! I dont need to pay someone in a shop to change it! I save a bundle, yet all my neighbors, like every one of them, take their vehicles in for oil changes!
We all spend our money one what we choose and there is a percentage of people out there who rather do things themselves. Except the oil change is a finite. It's just oil and a filter. A real estate agent has a pool of buyers where only 10% will want to to a transaction with a homeowner and 5% of those 10% know the owner.
Good question, the better ones will show the house and the homeowner will then pay the commission the agent asks at time of the offer from his buyers if he wants to sell to his buyer client.So you’re saying agents will not show his house despite being listed on the MLS? You need to specifically look for FSBO listings?
I still want to get a premium for the property and since I am not in a hurry to sell, I'm fine waiting out a determined negotiator for a few weeks / 2 months or so. The appraisal should point me in the right direction, and my strategy is to overprice it by $25k or so to see how the market reacts. We discovered yearly vacant home insurance on this property is $5k a year so we don't want to sit on it too long since that would cut into any profit.Except if you want the most amount of people to see your house, good news is, since you inherited it limiting showings to only people who will look at for sale buy owners, you will most likely be happy with whatever you get out of it.
Only 1 so far, they mentioned maybe 5.5% but that 6% is normal. Small sample but it seems consistent with other sources I've heard from, could be others out there charging less. I'll have to call around.Im curious, how many agencies have you spoke to and got quoted 6%?
I know different areas of the country are higher but 6% is pretty rare.
You have to remember in today’s society nobody wants to know the factual truthsThe following is a statement from NAR as well as some MLS rules:
Following recent inaccuracies in media coverage, including the false representation or suggestion that the National Association of REALTORS® (NAR) requires a standard 6% commission, NAR has issued the following statement:
The National Association of REALTORS® (NAR) does not set commissions – they are negotiable. The rule that has been the subject of litigation requires only that listing brokers communicate an offer of compensation. That offer can be any amount, including zero. And other rules throughout the MLS Handbook and NAR policy expressly prohibit MLSs, associations, and brokers from setting or suggesting any such amount that should be included in that field. The text of the current rule is linked here and excerpted below, the text of our MLS Antitrust Compliance Policy is linked here and excerpted below, and a notice included in NAR’s MLS Handbook is below.
Again, the current rule that has been the subject of litigation does not set commissions.
As reflected in our release about the proposed settlement agreement, NAR has agreed to put in place a new MLS rule prohibiting offers of broker compensation on the MLS. Commissions remain negotiable, as they have been.
Excerpt from Handbook on Multiple Listing Policy – Commission/Cooperative Compensation Offers, Section 1: Information Specifying the Compensation on Each Listing Filed with a Multiple Listing Service of an Association of REALTORS®
In filing property with the multiple listing service, participants make blanket unilateral offers of compensation to the other MLS participants and shall therefore specify on each listing filed with the service the compensation being offered by the listing broker to the other MLS participants. This is necessary because cooperating participants have the right to know what their compensation will be prior to commencing their efforts to sell.
The listing broker retains the right to determine the amount of compensation offered to subagents, buyer agents, or to brokers acting in other agency or nonagency capacities, which may be the same or different.
Excerpt from Handbook on Multiple Listing Policy – MLS Antitrust Compliance Policy
The purpose of multiple listing is the orderly correlation and dissemination of listing information to participants so they may better serve the buying and selling public. Boards and associations of REALTORS® and their multiple listing services shall not enact or enforce any rule which restricts, limits, or interferes with participants in their relations with each other, in their broker/client relationships, or in the conduct of their business in the following areas.
Boards and associations of REALTORS® and their MLSs shall not:
Excerpt from Handbook on Multiple Listing Policy – Notice to Association Members
- Fix, control, recommend, or suggest the commissions or fees charged for real estate brokerage services (Interpretation 14).
- Fix, control, recommend, or suggest the cooperative compensation offered by listing brokers to potential cooperating brokers.
Under the long-established policy of this association, the (state) association of REALTORS®, and the National Association of REALTORS®:
- The broker’s compensation for services rendered in respect to any listing is solely a matter of negotiation between the broker and his or her client, and is not fixed, controlled, recommended, or maintained by any persons not a party to the listing agreement.
- The compensation paid by a listing broker to a cooperating broker in respect to any listing is established by the listing broker and is not fixed, controlled, recommended, or maintained by any persons other than the lister broker. (Amended 4/92).