ZF9 Reman Overfill

[skaughtz]

My 2018 Pilot got a remanufactured ZF9 about 26k miles ago. Today I did her first drain and fill and to my surprise I got what looks to be 4.5+ quarts (5 quart bucket) out of the transmission instead of the 3.5-4.0 quarts that should be expected.

I did it cold like I always do and just put all of the 4 quarts of new fluid that I had back into her. I am guessing that she will be fine, but if she acts up then I will go through the bother of warming her up and using the check plug.

The reason I made a post about this is because afterwards I started searching for what others did in this situation and it seems to be not necessarily uncommon for these remanufactured ZF9s to come overfilled.

And on another note, the fluid was a good bit darker than I expected after only 26k miles. Not burned, and still green-ish, but not at all pretty. The official service interval on the fluid is 60k miles, which in my opinion is waaaaaaaaaayyyyy too long to go.

 

[Klutch9]

The 6f35 in our Explorer was rebuilt, by Ford, and it was at least a half quart overfilled. Not uncommon from what I hear.

 

[skaughtz]

The 6f35 in our Explorer was rebuilt, by Ford, and it was at least a half quart overfilled. Not uncommon from what I hear.

It's just silly that they will screw up that step of all things. I was juggling between putting 3.5 quarts back in as is what is specified for a drain and fill, but maybe there is a reason they overfill some to break it in... I don't know. I went 4 quarts and took her for a trip around the block and she seems fine. If an extra 0.5 quarts does her in I guess that is on me now.

Based on that fluid, though, I am convinced that it breaking down and torching the transmission is what does them in.

 

[Klutch9]

Im guessing that they are trying to account for future fluid loss by overfilling it. Or they were just lazy. Or the transmission isn’t that sensitive so why bother. Maybe a combo of all of the above? I’ve also heard that some transmissions are slightly overfilled from the factory.

 

[The Critic]

It's just silly that they will screw up that step of all things. I was juggling between putting 3.5 quarts back in as is what is specified for a drain and fill, but maybe there is a reason they overfill some to break it in... I don't know. I went 4 quarts and took her for a trip around the block and she seems fine. If an extra 0.5 quarts does her in I guess that is on me now.

Based on that fluid, though, I am convinced that it breaking down and torching the transmission is what does them in.

There is a fluid level adjustment procedure...

 

[skaughtz]

There is a fluid level adjustment procedure...

I am aware. It started pouring outside after I had finished with the other fluids I was doing (oil, transfer, diff) so I didn't bother getting her jacked up again after I took her for a quick test drive. I might do it this weekend.

The bigger point, I suppose, is that it is either a disappointment that you can't even rely on the factory to fill the thing with the appropriate amount of oil, or maybe they know something that we don't about the pros/cons of having some extra fluid in the transmission. At least with my ZF9 and Klutch9's 6f35.

 

[The Critic]

The bigger point, I suppose, is that it is either a disappointment that you can't even rely on the factory to fill the thing with the appropriate amount of oil, or maybe they know something that we don't about the pros/cons of having some extra fluid in the transmission. At least with my ZF9 and Klutch9's 6f35.

You’re assuming that the dealer did not touch the fluid level after the unit was installed. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if the dealer was the one who adjusted the fluid level and overfilled it. Many flat rate techs refuse to spend the appropriate time for adjusting the fluid level.

 

[skaughtz]

You’re assuming that the dealer did not touch the fluid level after the unit was installed. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if the dealer was the one who adjusted the fluid level and overfilled it. Many flat rate techs refuse to spend the appropriate time for adjusting the fluid level.

I suppose that is possible, but I'm thinking this came from the factory overfilled. Unless the dealership felt the need to change the fluid after installing the new transmission (no record of any service after installation) and also mark the plugs the same way that they come from the factory.

 

[The Critic]

I suppose that is possible, but I'm thinking this came from the factory overfilled. Unless the dealership felt the need to change the fluid after installing the new transmission (no record of any service after installation) and also mark the plugs the same way that they come from the factory.

It is normally standard procedure to check/adjust the fluid level after installing any transmission.

 

[motorcity]

I did my son's 19 Passport this spring, had 37k on it and had some woky shifts. It only had 2 3/4qts, that drained out from the factory. It also had a TSB for trans software update, that fixed the the shifting issues for the most part. I used the Pentosin fluid.

 

[skaughtz]

I did my son's 19 Passport this spring, had 37k on it and had some woky shifts. It only had 2 3/4qts, that drained out from the factory. It also had a TSB for trans software update, that fixed the the shifting issues for the most part. I used the Pentosin fluid.

I am of the opinion that Hans the fluid guy is drunk on the job over at the ZF factory in Germany. I am also convinced that 30k is about the max that you should go on the ATF 3.1. I will be changing mine religiously from here out on or before that mark. Has it been enough time to see a difference with the Pentosin? To my knowledge that is the only aftermarket fluid available designed specifically to match the ATF 3.1/ZF Lifeguard 9 fluid.

 

[STMech]

I am of the opinion that Hans the fluid guy is drunk on the job over at the ZF factory in Germany. I am also convinced that 30k is about the max that you should go on the ATF 3.1. I will be changing mine religiously from here out on or before that mark. Has it been enough time to see a difference with the Pentosin? To my knowledge that is the only aftermarket fluid available designed specifically to match the ATF 3.1/ZF Lifeguard 9 fluid.

I believe that Valvoline says that their Maxlife synthetic ATF (red jug) is compatible with the ZF/ Honda 3.1 spec.

 

[skaughtz]

I believe that Valvoline says that their Maxlife synthetic ATF (red jug) is compatible with the ZF/ Honda 3.1 spec.

I have seen that but don't trust it. My Camry transmission loves Maxlife ATF but the ZF9 fluid is apparently some super low viscosity specific to that transmission. Given how finicky they seem to be in general it just isn't worth risking to me.

 

[skaughtz]

I did the level check procedure this morning. 0.5 quarts came out. I had some butterfingers and kept dropping the plug and hex socket trying to get the plug back in so I ended up pumping in and draining out around 0.25 quarts more to get her flowing smooth. By the time I got the plug threaded she was at a thin, gentle trickle the way Honda describes that it should be so I am happy with that.

For anyone that has not done this but is planning to:

1) Getting to that stupid level check plug is a real PITA without a lift since you need to have the vehicle level so ramps are out, and the plugs themselves have really fine threads that make it difficult to get started unless it is lined up just right. Since fluid is draining you are on the clock so have your ducks in a row before you start.
2) I could not use my torque wrench to tighten down the plug since there was not enough room for the teeth to engage. I used a low profile flex head ratchet and did it by feel, using the properly torqued drain plug to gauge it. 26 foot pounds is not much so when it stops with a bit of force you should be good.

 

[motorcity]

I did the level check procedure this morning. 0.5 quarts came out. I had some butterfingers and kept dropping the plug and hex socket trying to get the plug back in so I ended up pumping in and draining out around 0.25 quarts more to get her flowing smooth. By the time I got the plug threaded she was at a thin, gentle trickle the way Honda describes that it should be so I am happy with that.

For anyone that has not done this but is planning to:

1) Getting to that stupid level check plug is a real PITA without a lift since you need to have the vehicle level so ramps are out, and the plugs themselves have really fine threads that make it difficult to get started unless it is lined up just right. Since fluid is draining you are on the clock so have your ducks in a row before you start.
2) I could not use my torque wrench to tighten down the plug since there was not enough room for the teeth to engage. I used a low profile flex head ratchet and did it by feel, using the properly torqued drain plug to gauge it. 26 foot pounds is not much so when it stops with a bit of force you should be good.

I had the wheel off, and as you, had a heck of a time getting the side level plug back in. Really poor access. With the Pentosin, maybe smoother shifts. I bought the fluid at Rock Auto, they have it for s decent price.