ZDDP Levels?

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: CC1981

After seeing the success guys were having with Redline oil, Burla included, I decided to try Redline 5w20. It was a huge reduction in noise and it idled so smooth. I then tried Redline 0w30 and it further quieted my Hemi. I'm currently running Redline 5w30 and any noise I had heard is barely noticeable unless you get right up next to the block.

That's not speculation or internet ramblings, that's cold hard results. My truck will get Redline until the day I sell it. My .02.


Just going to point out that you went through a list of three progressively thicker oils. Redline's 5w30 has the same HTHS as many 0w-40's.

You went:

1. Redline 5w-20 - Which has the HTHS of your regular API SN GF-5 5w30 @ 3.0cP, much heavier than any other readily available 5w-20
2. Redline 0w30 - Which has an HTHS of 3.2cP, sort of right between the GF-5 5w30 and a Euro 5w30/0w-40
3. Redline 5w30 - Which has an HTHS of 3.7cP, heavier than Mobil 1 0w-40 and many Euro oils, which hover around the 3.5 mark.

If all three oils have the same level of moly, I would ascribe the incremental improvement to the progressive increase in viscosity.

 

[PimTac]

I wonder if these engines can run Redline's 15w-50 oil? I believe they have variable valve timing so I'm not sure if that would be affected. It would be an interesting experiment.

 

[Koz1]

My comment has nothing to do with Rams, it does have info on how I quieted a sewing machine noisy engine.
The first thing I did was change the oil filter from stock OEM to a Fram Ultra (It made a noticeable difference). The OEM filter didn't have the flow needed I guess.
The second was using LubeGard Biotech oil additive with M1 AFE (The LubeGard made the biggest difference rather than the oil, I tested a few different brands of SYN), this made the engine silent.
I asked the dealer a few times if it was normal for this engine to be this noisy and they said all of them sound like sewing machines.
I test drove a few of the same and they were all noisy. Now my engine is nearly silent and I like that.
Im wondering if an original marginal oil pump exacerbates these kind of things.
Cheers.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Plenty if oils had

 

[burla]

Originally Posted By: Koz1
My comment has nothing to do with Rams, it does have info on how I quieted a sewing machine noisy engine.
The first thing I did was change the oil filter from stock OEM to a Fram Ultra (It made a noticeable difference). The OEM filter didn't have the flow needed I guess.
The second was using LubeGard Biotech oil additive with M1 AFE (The LubeGard made the biggest difference rather than the oil, I tested a few different brands of SYN), this made the engine silent.
I asked the dealer a few times if it was normal for this engine to be this noisy and they said all of them sound like sewing machines.
I test drove a few of the same and they were all noisy. Now my engine is nearly silent and I like that.
Im wondering if an original marginal oil pump exacerbates these kind of things.
Cheers.


Thanks for writing this, we had considered it because the science behind Lubeguard is solid, just organic moly. I will take this info and spread it around that at least one guy fixed his tick this way. Very helpful.

 

[burla]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: CC1981

After seeing the success guys were having with Redline oil, Burla included, I decided to try Redline 5w20. It was a huge reduction in noise and it idled so smooth. I then tried Redline 0w30 and it further quieted my Hemi. I'm currently running Redline 5w30 and any noise I had heard is barely noticeable unless you get right up next to the block.

That's not speculation or internet ramblings, that's cold hard results. My truck will get Redline until the day I sell it. My .02.


Just going to point out that you went through a list of three progressively thicker oils. Redline's 5w30 has the same HTHS as many 0w-40's.

You went:

1. Redline 5w-20 - Which has the HTHS of your regular API SN GF-5 5w30 @ 3.0cP, much heavier than any other readily available 5w-20
2. Redline 0w30 - Which has an HTHS of 3.2cP, sort of right between the GF-5 5w30 and a Euro 5w30/0w-40
3. Redline 5w30 - Which has an HTHS of 3.7cP, heavier than Mobil 1 0w-40 and many Euro oils, which hover around the 3.5 mark.

If all three oils have the same level of moly, I would ascribe the incremental improvement to the progressive increase in viscosity.


Good point, but what about his thickest oil run 0w40 pup x6 and one qrt PUP 5w30? Shouldn't that also been as quiet as the 5w30 redline?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: burla
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: CC1981

After seeing the success guys were having with Redline oil, Burla included, I decided to try Redline 5w20. It was a huge reduction in noise and it idled so smooth. I then tried Redline 0w30 and it further quieted my Hemi. I'm currently running Redline 5w30 and any noise I had heard is barely noticeable unless you get right up next to the block.

That's not speculation or internet ramblings, that's cold hard results. My truck will get Redline until the day I sell it. My .02.


Just going to point out that you went through a list of three progressively thicker oils. Redline's 5w30 has the same HTHS as many 0w-40's.

You went:

1. Redline 5w-20 - Which has the HTHS of your regular API SN GF-5 5w30 @ 3.0cP, much heavier than any other readily available 5w-20
2. Redline 0w30 - Which has an HTHS of 3.2cP, sort of right between the GF-5 5w30 and a Euro 5w30/0w-40
3. Redline 5w30 - Which has an HTHS of 3.7cP, heavier than Mobil 1 0w-40 and many Euro oils, which hover around the 3.5 mark.

If all three oils have the same level of moly, I would ascribe the incremental improvement to the progressive increase in viscosity.


Good point, but what about his thickest oil run 0w40 pup x6 and one qrt PUP 5w30? Shouldn't that also been as quiet as the 5w30 redline?


HTHS-wise, it might have landed somewhere near the Redline 0w-30? However, if it was loaded up with VII (most of the Redline grades have very little, the 5w30 has none and I would wager the same goes for the 5w-20) that may account for some of the difference.

Would have been interesting to see how it did on say a straight-run of Castrol 0w-40, which, IIRC, has an HTHS right around Redline's 5w30 and should be majority PAO.

 

[burla]

H395's experimentation was second to none, and is why we were able to find out so much about different oils. I'm not sure if he would be up for it, but I certainly would consider trying to get someone on that. One issue facing us is a glut of lifter cam fails, so we are hyper sensitive to it. Most of them had the tick before the fail, so once we get rid of the tick, it is hard to try something different then what worked.

I know that oil has been brought up by Syn many times. We constantly get new guys with ticks and I will try and sell that as a possible choice. Maybe someone here's a BITOG with tick can try that as well. Out test is informal, we take all comers. The credibility in the test is the control group, all different guys with different trucks. I reject no good ideas, everything that is possible should be tested. The end goal is simply find answers to hemi tick, which is leading to plenty of expensive failures. I'm sure acerbated by the gov't CAFE standards putting everyone with a Hemi into running 5w20's. Ram is running two grades up to the 40 weights in basically the same engine minus mds. They had so much widespread damage in the eco diesel they tsb'd the entire fleet and told owners to go thicker.

Thanks for your input.

 

[OVERKILL]

You are quite welcome, please update if you can get somebody to give it a try

 

[burla]

Are you talking about Castrol Edge 0w40? It can't be pao and be that cheap? German Gastrol?

The euro formula is only 25 bucks 5 qrt jug.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: burla
Are you talking about Castrol Edge 0w40? It can't be pao and be that cheap? German Gastrol?

Yes, Edge 0W-40. And yes it can.

 

[Koz1]

According to the MSDS it could be up to 50% Low viscosity polyalphaolefin PAO.
But the totals only add up to 69% so who knows it might be mostly PAO.

 

[burla]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: burla
Are you talking about Castrol Edge 0w40? It can't be pao and be that cheap? German Gastrol?

Yes, Edge 0W-40. And yes it can.


Sounds real good!

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: burla
Are you talking about Castrol Edge 0w40? It can't be pao and be that cheap? German Gastrol?

Yes, Edge 0W-40. And yes it can.


This.

 

[AVB]

Originally Posted By: VNTS
Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
Originally Posted By: VNTS
What other oils have high moly which you researched?

I have a 5.7 in a WK2 with 25k miles with no tick, but have run mostly xw-30 synthetic oils,

Also have a 6.4 in my SRT challenger, but only have less than 1000 miles, nice and quiet.

Have scene a few wiped out hemi cams at local dodge store from roller followers bearings seizing, also in high mileage cop chargers, probably from too much idling.


Is there no dedicated valve train lubrication? Why would idling hurt a roller bearing?



if you disassemble a new hemi, the cam followers, valve train are almost in a horizontal plane and there isnt a lot of splash, my two freinds who work at local store have scene the ball ends of the pushrods on the rockers ground into a semi circle half worn off. a cruiser parked and idling with bulk cheap 20w oil is prone to these problems, they generally dont see it on other cars/trucks. the police upfitters manual for squads recommends 10w30 mobile1 for the cruisers.

note this is their observations.


The engine that I just tore down had worn down push rods. It also had a broken piston, a sunken valve & a worn cylinder. The piston almost slid out of the block when we unbolted the rod cap.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: burla
There is a difference from not paying for the donut and not meeting the spec.

The only real comment I have is we don't know it's due to the moly. Red Line makes some amazing products, to be sure. If it's helping, great. Now, trying to pin it down to one ingredient or several ingredients is another matter altogether. Base stocks are different. Additive levels are different. HTHS is different.

 

[KL31]

Interesting thread. Would be good to hear someone try out the castrol and see if that makes the tick come back or not. I'm jealous of the Castrol 0W40 prices you guys have! It's around $85 per 5L here. Redlne is like $25.... per quart.

 

[burla]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: burla
There is a difference from not paying for the donut and not meeting the spec.

The only real comment I have is we don't know it's due to the moly. Red Line makes some amazing products, to be sure. If it's helping, great. Now, trying to pin it down to one ingredient or several ingredients is another matter altogether. Base stocks are different. Additive levels are different. HTHS is different.


Good points, and we can test for this. However, I can say it takes years to accomplish this. I have considered what you guys are saying, I appreciate it and I agree, it is possible. It is very hard to get anyone who had their tick resolved to try another oil, me included, but an opportunity exists for new guys with ticks, we have new guys coming all of the time. If I get one I will post the results, in fact this thread may be long gone then, I will come back and PM those who showed interest.

Question, do you happen to know the hths of Castrol 0w40? Looks like redline 0w40 is 4,0, Amsoil 3.9, cant find Castrol numbers. Generally the current test was 5w20's and 5w30's, mainly because of the mds engines, but we had a couple guys go past 5w30 mainly due to the penzoil program that gave us some great PUP 0w40 to try out, and since it is thin for weight, we almost consider that a 5w30, especially since we compare it to redline.

 

[OVERKILL]

I think the Castrol HTHS is 3.8cP IIRC.

 

[burla]

Originally Posted By: KL31
Interesting thread. Would be good to hear someone try out the castrol and see if that makes the tick come back or not. I'm jealous of the Castrol 0W40 prices you guys have! It's around $85 per 5L here. Redlne is like $25.... per quart.


I literally had a guy come yesterday with the tick who was running 5w30 Castrol. I will try and convince him that 0w40 has a better base oil and may be the answer. Since he seams to like the brand.

One thing for you guys to consider, it may not be the moly, but it may also be the moly. There are only two things that separate Redline from the crowd, base oil and high moly, if not one then it's the other. We already had a guy from this thread a Bob's regular I have never met and has had nothing to do with our test, say that he had his tick erased by simply adding a moly supplement that seams to be very similar to the moly used in redline. Personally I am leaning towards the moly, but I indeed keep an open mind til I'm 100% convinced, and that is not the case as of yet.

I invite or encourage someone at Bob's to start their own testing when it comes to hemi tick. It is these types of applications where you learn about what is possible on the lubrication front. We are a small group of Ram owners, but many other hemi's can benefit from guys gathering and trying different things. There is no downside, even for guys who didn't have their ticks eliminated. Every truck or hemi needs oil, so what's the difference in trying different ones, a couple bucks? When there is no downside, and an incredible upside, the only reason to not do it is ________ fill in the blank?? I have no starch to start a new test, I have been there for this long 4 plus year battle. I don't mind trying a couple things over there, but I aint starting over, lol. If anyone wants to go further with it, presumably someone with a hemi and better yet with hemi tick, go ahead pm me I will show you what we have done.