z-maz

[tenderloin]

Come on barkerman...they have not made ZMAX in 5 years and are just selling old stock? Even adding new packaging? LOL

Why didn't the FTC allow the other "snale oil" companies it sued do the same? Maybe, just maybe they are allowing ZMAX to still be sold 5 years later is because it does what was agreed on by the FTC...

Also it appears you have never used penetrating oil....

 

[tenderloin]

MolaKule

You are way over my grey hair on this one. All I know is I use petrating oil on various metals to free them up,as well as clean them up. I have also blued many a steel gun to know that even steel is somehow porous enough to allow for the blueing liquid to soak in. How? Don't have a clue....

Here is some info drom Zmax's website
http://www.zmax.com/why_zmax/test_results.html
http://www.zmax.com/why_zmax/testing_summary.pdf
http://www.zmax.com/why_zmax/testing_summary.pdf
http://www.zmax.com/testimonials/experts.html

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
So you are saying that NO liquid can soak or get into any metal or just steel? How about iron...aluminum...?????? Unless I am hallucinating I sure have seen it with my own eyes..

I would bet anyone who has done gun bluing and the mfg of such products might have a different view than you do..including soaking into steel


Gun blueing is actually an oxidizing process where the outer layer of metal is oxidized.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluing_(steel)

http://www.thegunzone.com/rust.html

This is where the asperities which stick up into air are modified or oxidized. Similar to rusting except it is a controlled rusting or surface modification process. And yes I have actually blued and antiqued guns using this process.

Penetrating oil works by two mechanisms, 1) capillary action or "wicking" or creeping into ferrous oxide or rust, 2) the breaking down of surface tension of any liquids or moisture present

Now rust is very porous so any liquid can wick or "ooze" into it.

http://metalwebnews.com/howto/rust/rust.html

But the mechnism of diffusing a naphthenic liquid into a solid is suspect.

 

[MolaKule]

From one of the ZMAX links given above:

Quote:
Metal Penetration - Arch Analytical Services (Cheshire, CT) utilized Auger Electron Spectroscopy to assess the ability of zMAX to penetrate metal surfaces. A testing protocol was developed and tests were subsequently conducted on cast iron and aluminum alloy specimens similar in composition to metals used in current model automotive engines. The metal specimens were immersed in the test fluids for seven to fourteen days under temperature-cycled conditions (i.e., ambient to 100 °C to simulate some modes of an operating engine environment). Comparative tests of zMAX by itself and in blends with a commercial SAE 5w30 SJ engine oil showed the zMAX by itself and when blended with the engine oil, penetrated both types of metal far deeper than engine oil alone. Although it was not possible to precisely quantify the difference in penetration depths between the engine oil, the engine oil with zMAX, and zMAX itself, the presence of zMAX in the engine oil resulted in a 82% greater penetration and a 133% greater penetration when zMAX was 82% compared to the engine oil itself.


FACT:

If one uses Auger Electron Spectroscopy to determine penetration depth profiles, then those profiles would look like a sandwich.


Now look at this sentence:

Quote:
Although it was NOT possible to precisely quantify the difference in penetration depths between the engine oil,
Why not? Anyone who pays as much microsope time for a test like this should have had a series of definitive sandwich slices showing just how far the liquid penetrated.

NOW, if you CANNOT QUANTIFY the depth profile of the sample, how can possibly make the statement that it penetrated 82% or 133%.

 

[MolaKule]

If this penetration phenomenon cannot be proven by quantifying it with an actual Auger penetration profiles, then it proves nothing.

OILMYTHBUSTERS 1 Z-MAX 0.

 

[tenderloin]

Sounds like you are correct. Thanks for your valuable time.

BTW you should be an advisor to the FTC.

 

[MinivanMauler]

I'm wondering whey they even bothered with Auger.

They should have used secondary ion mass spec:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_ion_mass_spectrometry

Of course, their chemists know this, and for that matter, they probably did carry it out. I'm guessing their marketing guys didn't like the results.

 

[BarkerMan]

tenderloin, look at the settlement on the FTC site. Ask the purchasing agents for Pep Boys. They are selling old stock in the original packaging. The agreement allows the company to sell all it's stock at the time of the settlement. FTC complained about the claims made, not the product. They were not bothered about the product and it's chemistry, they just wanted the claims toned down and rebates offered to customers. I think you had to respond to a mailing and then you would receive a check.

And the comment about penetrating oil? When I use penetrating oil I'm interesting in getting into the corrosion and between parts. If it ever gets into the metal I'd be surprised.

I think that Molakule is bringing science and common sense into the process and the Z-Max pitch is about the "wow" factor. If more people looked at these additives with Molakule's eye a lot of these companies would find their revenue stream a bit weak.

And what do you think about good ole Carrol Shelby putting his name on Z-Max? Mr. Shelby has done a lot of great things with his charities but his endorsement sounds a little hollow.

 

[novaracer69]

i use to use z-max as a rc nitro touring car bearing soak. you could see the carbon swirling in the z-max. as for that it did work very well. after i had a kid no more racing rc cars no need for z-max.

 

[Durango]

I admit when I was young I tried everything under the sun that claimed to be a wonder lube!!!! Even Z-Maz was tried BUT I noticed absolutly nothing better/different with the product.

Perhaps it might work when it's been used over a period of time but for the price I'd rather use a synthetic oil instead.

Durango