You want moly?

[dave5358]

Originally Posted By: V8man
Fuel Savings are hard to verify and I doubt this product can help with oil consumption.


Ehhhh? You have to keep fuel usage records to verify a mileage increase, but it's pretty easy to do the math. As for oil consumption, just look through the info on BITOG. MoS2 creates a better seal on piston walls. And that is very easy to verify even with few records. Did you have to add a quart between oil changes or not?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: dave5358
Originally Posted By: V8man
Fuel Savings are hard to verify and I doubt this product can help with oil consumption.


Ehhhh? You have to keep fuel usage records to verify a mileage increase, but it's pretty easy to do the math. As for oil consumption, just look through the info on BITOG. MoS2 creates a better seal on piston walls. And that is very easy to verify even with few records. Did you have to add a quart between oil changes or not?


I think it can help with consumption and a lot of members have said it does. It is a solid lubricant mixed in an oil carrier, it fills tiny imperfections in cylinder walls which can help reduce oil use in some vehicles.

 

[Mystic]

The major oil companies seemed to think, at least for a while, that moly was good because it was being added to a lot of motor oils for a while. And there are still motor oils with a lot of moly, like Redline and Schaeffers.

 

[dave5358]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
The major oil companies seemed to think, at least for a while, that moly was good because it was being added to a lot of motor oils for a while. And there are still motor oils with a lot of moly, like Redline and Schaeffers.


All true. But being good and being cost effective are not the same thing. If the oil companies figured it was unnecessary, it would be gone in a heartbeat. And, there are many factors that might impact their decision: e.g. average oil change increment.

Assume, just for sake of argument, that it does reduce oil consumption. I wonder how the oil companies would interpret that factor ;-}

BTW, what additive(s) or changes are in "High Mileage" versions of popular motor oils, other than a different label? If anybody knows?

 

[Mystic]

Titanium is supposed to be a possible replacement for moly-and some oils do have that such as Castol Edge.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
The major oil companies seemed to think, at least for a while, that moly was good because it was being added to a lot of motor oils for a while. And there are still motor oils with a lot of moly, like Redline and Schaeffers.


Moly is also more costly than Titanium, some oil companies are looking for cheaper alternatives. At the end of the day its all about profits isn't it? If those alternatives are better or worse still remains to be seen.

 

[dave5358]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Moly is also more costly than Titanium, some oil companies are looking for cheaper alternatives. At the end of the day its all about profits isn't it? If those alternatives are better or worse still remains to be seen.


Are you sure on this - both as to price comparison and titanium's usage as a lubricant? I did some quick looking (Wikipedia and Chemicool) and Titanian seemed to be a bit more expensive that MoS2. A bit - not really a huge price difference, and a significant change in supply or demand could easily change the price picture.

Some years ago, bicycle parts made from titanium were all the rage. They were deathly expensive, resulting in the humorous term 'unobtanium'. Titanium is used in the aircraft industry, which would boost the price of any raw material. My mind pictures titanium as an upscale steel substitute - very hard and strong for the weight. It's hard to imagine it as a lubricant.

Molybdenum Disulfide, on the other hand, is usually a nasty black powder that resembles graphite. In fact, it works like graphite as well, except that it has a super-high film strength (unlike graphite). It's used in bullet molds and as a high pressure lubricant, in paints and other chemical compounds. In very fine grade (.2-.3 micron size) it will stay in an oil suspension (e.g. Lubro-Moly). There's an eBay seller of MoS2 in the 1-2 micron size. Most technical grade MoS2 is 3-10 microns. These latter two products will work as an oil additive, but the technical grade might settle out (not sure on the 1-2 micron product).

MoS2 has been used as a lubricant in vehicles for a long time. My first exposure to the stuff was in the 1960's - Volkswagon of America supplied it as an oil additive for their Beetle air-cooled engine, some of which engines shared an oil supply with the transmission. Dow Corning Corporation of Midland, Michigan supplied MoS2 in liquid form in small blue 4" tubes for VW - you squeezed a tube into your oil at oil-change time. But hardly anyone used it (most dealers didn't even carry it, but could order it), VW got rid of the shared oil supply, Dow-Corning dropped the product (although they still make several other Moly products) and life went on. If you got any liquid MoS2 on your hands, it was very hard to get off (I mean VERY hard ;-}

I've used it pretty regularly ever since, the biggest reason for not using it being that I couldn't find a reliable supplier or even any supplier at all. On the bright side, none of my vehicles has ever used oil... period. I always figured the cost of the moly was offset by the quart of oil I did not have to add. And there are other benefits as well.

 

[147_Grain]

Nice review, Dave!

 

[salesrep]

Query this! If cost was not a factor and one were to make a gas or a diesel engine oil.... Would you put in Moly?

 

[Vikas]

Quote:
My mind pictures titanium as an upscale steel substitute - very hard and strong for the weight. It's hard to imagine it as a lubricant.


I said that many times before but most of the participants wanted to know what I was smoking

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: dave5358
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Moly is also more costly than Titanium, some oil companies are looking for cheaper alternatives. At the end of the day its all about profits isn't it? If those alternatives are better or worse still remains to be seen.


Are you sure on this - both as to price comparison and titanium's usage as a lubricant? I did some quick looking (Wikipedia and Chemicool) and Titanian seemed to be a bit more expensive that MoS2. A bit - not really a huge price difference, and a significant change in supply or demand could easily change the price picture.

Some years ago, bicycle parts made from titanium were all the rage. They were deathly expensive, resulting in the humorous term 'unobtanium'. Titanium is used in the aircraft industry, which would boost the price of any raw material. My mind pictures titanium as an upscale steel substitute - very hard and strong for the weight. It's hard to imagine it as a lubricant.

Molybdenum Disulfide, on the other hand, is usually a nasty black powder that resembles graphite. In fact, it works like graphite as well, except that it has a super-high film strength (unlike graphite). It's used in bullet molds and as a high pressure lubricant, in paints and other chemical compounds. In very fine grade (.2-.3 micron size) it will stay in an oil suspension (e.g. Lubro-Moly). There's an eBay seller of MoS2 in the 1-2 micron size. Most technical grade MoS2 is 3-10 microns. These latter two products will work as an oil additive, but the technical grade might settle out (not sure on the 1-2 micron product).

MoS2 has been used as a lubricant in vehicles for a long time. My first exposure to the stuff was in the 1960's - Volkswagon of America supplied it as an oil additive for their Beetle air-cooled engine, some of which engines shared an oil supply with the transmission. Dow Corning Corporation of Midland, Michigan supplied MoS2 in liquid form in small blue 4" tubes for VW - you squeezed a tube into your oil at oil-change time. But hardly anyone used it (most dealers didn't even carry it, but could order it), VW got rid of the shared oil supply, Dow-Corning dropped the product (although they still make several other Moly products) and life went on. If you got any liquid MoS2 on your hands, it was very hard to get off (I mean VERY hard ;-}

I've used it pretty regularly ever since, the biggest reason for not using it being that I couldn't find a reliable supplier or even any supplier at all. On the bright side, none of my vehicles has ever used oil... period. I always figured the cost of the moly was offset by the quart of oil I did not have to add. And there are other benefits as well.


How much does Titanium cost as a powdered additive vs. moly as a powered additive? When I looked into it moly when added to oil cost more, but the market prices fluctuate like you said.

Great info about moly!

 

[Mystic]

With the need for more fuel economy I think there will always be some sort of additive to try to reduce friction and improve fuel mileage. It just makes sense.

Personally I don't care if they put moly in an oil, or titanium, or whatever, as long as it works. I remember Skyship making a big deal out of not using moly in the best quality synthetic oils. I don't know about that. But I like the idea of some sort of friction reducer being in the oil to reduce wear and improve fuel mileage.

 

[V8man]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: dave5358
Originally Posted By: V8man
Fuel Savings are hard to verify and I doubt this product can help with oil consumption.


Ehhhh? You have to keep fuel usage records to verify a mileage increase, but it's pretty easy to do the math. As for oil consumption, just look through the info on BITOG. MoS2 creates a better seal on piston walls. And that is very easy to verify even with few records. Did you have to add a quart between oil changes or not?


I think it can help with consumption and a lot of members have said it does. It is a solid lubricant mixed in an oil carrier, it fills tiny imperfections in cylinder walls which can help reduce oil use in some vehicles.


You are using the words THINK and SOME, I have used Lubro-Moly in a mower that is using oil, it did cut the consumption rate in half, but the mower is still using a bit of oil.

I continue to use this product because it seems my mower runs smoother, just my observations.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: V8man

You are using the words THINK and SOME, I have used Lubro-Moly in a mower that is using oil, it did cut the consumption rate in half, but the mower is still using a bit of oil.

I continue to use this product because it seems my mower runs smoother, just my observations.


I'm using words like THINK and SOME for a reason, since the product won't work reducing consumption in all instances for everyone. Some engines are beyond help.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: dave5358
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Moly is also more costly than Titanium, some oil companies are looking for cheaper alternatives. At the end of the day its all about profits isn't it? If those alternatives are better or worse still remains to be seen.


Are you sure on this - both as to price comparison and titanium's usage as a lubricant? I did some quick looking (Wikipedia and Chemicool) and Titanian seemed to be a bit more expensive that MoS2. A bit - not really a huge price difference, and a significant change in supply or demand could easily change the price picture.

Some years ago, bicycle parts made from titanium were all the rage. They were deathly expensive, resulting in the humorous term 'unobtanium'. Titanium is used in the aircraft industry, which would boost the price of any raw material. My mind pictures titanium as an upscale steel substitute - very hard and strong for the weight. It's hard to imagine it as a lubricant.

Molybdenum Disulfide, on the other hand, is usually a nasty black powder that resembles graphite. In fact, it works like graphite as well, except that it has a super-high film strength (unlike graphite). It's used in bullet molds and as a high pressure lubricant, in paints and other chemical compounds. In very fine grade (.2-.3 micron size) it will stay in an oil suspension (e.g. Lubro-Moly). There's an eBay seller of MoS2 in the 1-2 micron size. Most technical grade MoS2 is 3-10 microns. These latter two products will work as an oil additive, but the technical grade might settle out (not sure on the 1-2 micron product).

MoS2 has been used as a lubricant in vehicles for a long time. My first exposure to the stuff was in the 1960's - Volkswagon of America supplied it as an oil additive for their Beetle air-cooled engine, some of which engines shared an oil supply with the transmission. Dow Corning Corporation of Midland, Michigan supplied MoS2 in liquid form in small blue 4" tubes for VW - you squeezed a tube into your oil at oil-change time. But hardly anyone used it (most dealers didn't even carry it, but could order it), VW got rid of the shared oil supply, Dow-Corning dropped the product (although they still make several other Moly products) and life went on. If you got any liquid MoS2 on your hands, it was very hard to get off (I mean VERY hard ;-}

I've used it pretty regularly ever since, the biggest reason for not using it being that I couldn't find a reliable supplier or even any supplier at all. On the bright side, none of my vehicles has ever used oil... period. I always figured the cost of the moly was offset by the quart of oil I did not have to add. And there are other benefits as well.


I've only seen mos2 already added to only 1 oil,the lubro-moly 10w-40.
Most formulations contain the organic type moly.
Mos2 has only in the past decade or so been processed enough to actually be of use in an engine because particle size was a problem and the mos2 was just filtered out.
Personally I love mos2 however I find myself using it less,simply because I want to prove to myself,one way or the other that its of value in a top tier oil.
It still goes in all my small engines though.

 

[Mystic]

A lot of guys here seem to like the LM moly supplement. I have never tried it myself but there has been a lot of discussion about it here.

And a lot of oil companies did put moly in their oil, at least up until recently.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
A lot of guys here seem to like the LM moly supplement. I have never tried it myself but there has been a lot of discussion about it here.

And a lot of oil companies did put moly in their oil, at least up until recently.


Yes some oils contain moly but its not mos2,its the organic or trimmer type(tri-nuclear ?)
In my experience more moly equates to less fuel consumption.
My 88 5.0 was smoking really bad at start up and when I floored it,as well as what I'm thinking is a rear main seal leak from where the drips under the car were located.
I've done a couple short runs of RP 10w-30 and a can of mos2 and a can of motor oil saver. In around 5000-6000kms there are no more drips and no more smoke whatsoever. Not at start up nor when floored.
I'm happy with the results and the products are inexpensive. It just proves to me once again that lubro-Moly's products perform as advertised.
Others results may vary

 

[dave5358]

Originally Posted By: V8man
You are using the words THINK and SOME, I have used Lubro-Moly in a mower that is using oil, it did cut the consumption rate in half, but the mower is still using a bit of oil. I continue to use this product because it seems my mower runs smoother, just my observations.


BTW, for use in a mower, you could probably get by with technical grade MoS2 powder. Reason being that most mowers have splash lubrication, so settling is probably not going to happen.

 

[KCJeep]

I used MoS2 in my Jeep for about 10k and liked it, hard to quantify results I know but it seemed quieter and mpg was at an all time high. I have quit using it simply due to cost, a recent UOA suggests I need to be around 3,500 to 4,000 mile OCI's for my use so it seems a bit overkill for that.

 

[dave5358]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'm using words like THINK and SOME for a reason, since the product won't work reducing consumption in all instances for everyone. Some engines are beyond help.


True, I've met some engines that are beyond help. But if you have a vehicle that's consuming oil past the rings, your choices are limited:

- You can rebuild the engine, at least to the extent of installing new rings, honing the cylinder, etc. This is THE CORRECT SOLUTION, but probably not in most folks budgets.

- You can simply add oil as needed, while continuing to use the recommended grade/type of motor oil. Don't laugh, but this may be the very best solution in some cases.

- You can switch to a heavier grade of oil (e.g. 5w-40 instead of 5w30). This may or may not help oil usage - leaky rings can be quite contrary. But, reduced oil usage or not, you will probably be starving some parts of the engine for lubrication. Plus your engine will run less efficiently (heavier oil, right?).

- You can use "other" additives. Some of these are simply oil thickeners (so why not just use thicker oil?). Another group of additives (e.g. Slick-50) contain things like PTFE (aka teflon). Before you run out and buy a bunch of additives in this category, you may note that DuPont (the inventor of PTFE) and NASA's Lewis Research Center have both studied this matter and concluded that PTFE is not useful in automobile engines and may even be harmful. For example, see PTFE in Motor Oil

- Which brings us to MoS2. It's not a miracle cure, but it's pretty darn close. It reduces friction. It reduces engine heat. It will frequently reduce oil consumption. Women will find you vehicle more attractive. Consider the alternatives!