Yearly Qualification

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: Al
Not sure where you get your history
But the Constitution minus Bill of rights was oficially adopted Sept 13 1788
It was officially established as the law of the land June 21 when ratified by New Hamshire (9th state to ratify)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_o...es_Constitution


The 10 amendments that are now known as the Bill of Rights were ratified on December 15, 1791, thus becoming a part of the Constitution.
https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-the-bill-of-rights



From memory.

Clearly faulty.

While I’ve got the timing wrong, the Bill of Rights was debated during the Constitutional Convention, but the discussion was tabled for later. That particular debate: enumerating individual rights, was heated.

I need to spend less time on BITOG, it’s making me dumber...

 

[Shannow]

Thanks Gents.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: Astro14

From memory.

Clearly faulty. .

OK..I will give you a huge pass..you answered from memory and clearly know your stuff. You didn't have to go on wikipedia like me. But I am a big U.S. history fan..like I am sure you are too. And I believe we would both agree that "real" U.S. history is lacking in today's schools.

BTW..I did read that one reason the Bill of Rights were not included is that the framers had worked on the Constitution a long time and were anxious to get home..lol. This does not invalidate your points.

 

[ArrestMeRedZ]

By my understanding, you're both kind of right. Al is correct on his timing of the Constitution and the first 10 Amendments known as the Bill of Rights, and Astro is effectively correct in his understanding that the BoR was necessary to the original Constitution. The Constitution was ratified with the Massachusetts Compromise in place. This compromise provided for the Bill of Rights to not be part of the originally written Constitution, but to be added shortly thereafter as a condition of ratification of a number of states. Without the understanding that the Bill of Rights would be incorporated, the Constitution would not have been ratified.
My question is, since the first 10 Amendments are an enumeration of individual rights, how can the second ammendment be primarily about the establishment of militias? If it was, it wouldn't be in the Bill of Rights.

 

[umungus1122]

The numbers of fatalities from vehicles as opposed to gun homicides speak for themselves. You have no specific Constitutional right to drive a motor vehicle on a public roadway. You do have a right to own a firearm suitable for use in a militia.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: umungus1122
The numbers of fatalities from vehicles as opposed to gun homicides speak for themselves.


Another thing to keep in mind is the vast majority of the number of gun deaths the anti's so love to throw around are suicides. Remove them and the numbers don't correlate to what they would like.

"In 2012, 64% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides. In 2010, there were 19,392 firearm-related suicides, and 11,078 firearm-related homicides in the U.S."

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&...1.0.q9orJ_Xe5e4

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Another thing to keep in mind is the vast majority of the number of gun deaths the anti's so love to throw around are suicides. Remove them and the numbers don't correlate to what they would like.

"In 2012, 64% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides. In 2010, there were 19,392 firearm-related suicides, and 11,078 firearm-related homicides in the U.S."

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&...1.0.q9orJ_Xe5e4


I agree, and has been my point for decades that this mis-use of statistics gives plenty of ammo (no pun) to the argument...won't go into my Dad's case for being political in some minds.

But taking your point AND taking Al's point

https://www.statista.com/statistics/596423/suicide-gun-deaths-united-states-by-age/

Surely suicide is a "mental health" issue, and the age groupings tell you something too, don't they ?

Double the average rate in the over 65s.

 

[Win]

The nemesis of enumeration is always expressio unius est exclusio alterius. When you look at how straightforward language has been tortured over time by people who think they were smarter than the authors, maybe we would have been better off adhering to natural rights.

If my state is not at the very top of gun ownership per capita, we are not far from it. It's cheap to live here, so we also have all the old goats that can't afford to live in Florida. We have little to no old goat with a gun crime. The only one I can even recall was Ronald Gene Simmons, but IIRC, he strangled more than he shot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Gene_Simmons.

 

[KCJeep]

Oh my word I had never even heard of that guy. Simply mortifying.

 

[wtd]

I retired last year from Federal Law Enforcement and re-qualified last month to Keep my HR 218 in affect. I also have a CCW from the state I live in which has to be renewed every five years.

The agency that I retired from does not re-qualify us for HR 218. A local class held at one of the colleges is one of the places we can go to re-qualify.