Wow, Tesla laying off more than 10% of its world wide workforce, two Top Executives leaving

[billt460]

Yup, and the most socialist of the mixed economy countries are also year over year the happiest. Ex. Countries who participate in the Nordic model.

Yes, but population drastically controls the ability of all this so called, "happiness". The entire Nordic region only has a combined total population of less than 28 million people. And most of them are educated and skilled. They all produce and introduce wealth into the system.

Canada has less than 40 million. Australia less than 27 million. We currently stand at over 341 million. You can't run these countries the same way, even if you loved socialism to its core. Especially concerning something as expensive as healthcare.

And how many unskilled, uneducated, people do we have to take care of, when compared to places like Norway or New Zealand? Government run healthcare would bankrupt this country in no time at all. It cannot and will not happen.

There simply isn't enough money to totally insure the health of over 341 million people. With millions more quite literally pouring in here every year. And none of them are getting jobs at NASA.... Only bus rides and handouts.

 

[alarmguy]

If you don't pay taxes in general, authorities may take away your liberty.

And those authorities are elected in fair elections by the people

 

[PWMDMD]

If you don't pay taxes in general, authorities may take away your liberty.

We can all blame article 1, section 8, clause 1 of that pesky Constitution we all claim to love.

"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"

 

[demarpaint]

And those authorities are elected in fair elections by the people

One would hope...

 

[14.1 Grms]

Yup, and the most socialist of the mixed economy countries are also year over year the happiest. Ex. Countries who participate in the Nordic model.

There's a lot more to it than just that, but those factors are verboten discussion on here.

I agree. But don't tell that to a socialist, because they believe they have a way to make it, "fair".

A classic liberal capitalist (i.e. Jefferson & Co.) believes everyone should have a fair chance to succeed in life. A socialist thinks some people should have a fair life at the expense of the success of others.

And those authorities are elected in fair elections by the people

I thought we were saving jokes for Friday posting?

 

[PWMDMD]

Yes, but population drastically controls the ability of all this so called, "happiness". The entire Nordic region only has a combined total population of less than 28 million people. And most of them are educated and skilled. They all produce and introduce wealth into the system.

Canada has less than 40 million. Australia less than 27 million. We currently stand at over 341 million. You can't run these countries the same way, even if you loved socialism to its core. Especially concerning something as expensive as healthcare.

And how many unskilled, uneducated, people do we have to take care of, when compared to places like Norway or New Zealand? Government run healthcare would bankrupt this country in no time at all. It cannot and will not happen.

There simply isn't enough money to totally insure the health of over 341 million people. With millions more quite literally pouring in here every year. And none of them are getting jobs at NASA.... Only bus rides and handouts.

Which is why we sit on a continuum as far as mixed economies go with less socialism here than the Nordic countries. I'm not saying the Nordic model is the best for the US, but I am strongy hinting that labeling all socialism as absolutely bad is not quite fair either. As I've said, mixed economies are a good balance between free-market and greater good of the people.

 

[edyvw]

Stop trying to over complicate something simple. Capitalism is an economy run by the private sector. Socialism is a government run economy.

And about the only difference between socialism and communism, is the socialist doesn't have all the guns yet.... But they're working on it. And if they say they're not, they're lying.... Much like they do about a lot of other things they so love to quietly promote.

I've never seen a socialist, or a socialist run country that didn't love gun control. And please don't come back with that nonsense, "police and fire departments are socialist!"

Capitalism cannot operate without strong government. Capitalism 101. Rent Adam Smith “Wealth of Nations.”
You are implying that these companies are operated by government. Those are not the facts, at least on this planet.

 

[edyvw]

Capitalism isn't fair. It was never meant to be fair. You rose up in wealth and power by taking risks. Those risks sometimes were successful. And many times they are not.

"Leveling the playing field for everyone", by playing Robin Hood has never worked out well. Because it kills the entrepreneurial spirit that drives success. In capitalism the wealthy achieve power.... In socialism the powerful achieve wealth. Big difference.

However, reality is different. Guy by the name Alexis de Tocqueville wrote that in 1824 about dangers of industrial associations.
Boeing is perfect example of weakening regulation bcs. outsized access where powerbrokers are, strictly for their own benefit. That resulted in 346 dead people.
No one here is saying that someone has to give someone something for free. But, if you think that you as let’s say, small business owner, has same opportunity as Boeing etc. than, you are living a lie. And one could argue that we are extremely socialist country. I have not seen “little guy” getting loads of money in 2007-2009, but all banks did, even those that didn’t need it.

 

[edyvw]

Yes, I know you hate the South. We have discussed this before. Which is why I was surprised when you apparently sited BMW South Carolina in a positive light. It is a very impressive operation I can assure you. In fact this plant is actually BMW's largest and often their most efficient.

New Jersey handles US sales and dealers and has nothing at all to do with the BMW plant in Greer SC. The plant reports to BMW manufacturing in Germany.

Who gets paid what I don't know.

I am very well aware of plant. I lived in Greenville. Been at plant numerous times.
It is manufacturing plant. Cheap labor. That is it.

 

[edyvw]

Of course. Real estate crisis from 2007/2009 proved that loudest proponents of “free market “ are perfectly fine by state intervention.

 

[billt460]

Which is why we sit on a continuum as far as mixed economies go with less socialism here than the Nordic countries. I'm not saying the Nordic model is the best for the US, but I am strongy hinting that labeling all socialism as absolutely bad is not quite fair either. As I've said, mixed economies are a good balance between free-market and greater good of the people.

If we had a population of 25 million we could have socialized medicine..... Easily. If Canada had 341 million they couldn't. It's just that simple. Unless you want to model it like China. Personally I can think of better places to be poor and sick.... Like right here.

 

[JeffKeryk]

This is part of the well-defined "regulatory cycle":
1. Identify something that the free-market does not regulate well
2. Implement regulations
3. Recognize the regulations are too restrictive
4. Relax regulations
5. Abolish regulations
6. Start back at #1

Well said; especially given change is the only constant. This is evident beyond economics...
A prime example is the business life cycle. Leaders and processes that got you to $1M might you to $1B but certainly not to $10B and beyond.

Back to the United States, we are certainly a complicated economy.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Of course. Real estate crisis from 2007/2009 proved that loudest proponents of “free market “ are perfectly fine by state intervention.

Banking deregulation was a disaster, at least to Alan Greenspan who authored it.

 

[PWMDMD]

However, reality is different. Guy by the name Alexis de Tocqueville wrote that in 1824 about dangers of industrial associations.
Boeing is perfect example of weakening regulation bcs. outsized access where powerbrokers are, strictly for their own benefit. That resulted in 346 dead people.
No one here is saying that someone has to give someone something for free. But, if you think that you as let’s say, small business owner, has same opportunity as Boeing etc. than, you are living a lie. And one could argue that we are extremely socialist country. I have not seen “little guy” getting loads of money in 2007-2009, but all banks did, even those that didn’t need it.

Deregulation has been an abject failure for the past 40 years. Clearly, the free-market is unable or unwilling to police banks/big business - there are thousands if not tens of thousands of examples of this with the 2008 finical crisis being the most absurd.

 

[PWMDMD]

Banking deregulation was a disaster, at least to Alan Greenspan who authored it.

Greenspan was also a proponent of a rising tide lifts all boats. History shows if you give wealthy people more money, they keep more money.

 

[billt460]

But, if you think that you as let’s say, small business owner, has same opportunity as Boeing etc. than, you are living a lie. And one could argue that we are extremely socialist country. I have not seen “little guy” getting loads of money in 2007-2009, but all banks did, even those that didn’t need it.

I had a friend that was laid off from Boeing. In fact he was a higher up in the union that represented the workers there. He died of kidney failure last year. Not too well off I might add. Very sad. With that said, I can show you several prosperous small business owners here.

A capitalistic government isn't set up to offer the "same opportunity" to giant corporations as they are small business. If you want that as a small business owner, the only way you're going to get it is to grow your business exponentially. As I said, it isn't fair, or designed to be. If you want that so bad then move to a socialist country.

The housing crash of 2008 was caused by too many idiots borrowing money they couldn't pay back. The same thing happened to the stock market in 1929. It's nothing new. And you're really stretching all of this to connect it to socialism as something, "better".

 

[14.1 Grms]

Deregulation has been an abject failure for the past 40 years. Clearly, the free-market is unable or unwilling to police banks/big business - there are thousands if not tens of thousands of examples of this with the 2008 finical crisis being the most absurd.

That's a direct result of lobbyists being treated like humans - which they are certainly not - instead of mosquitoes.

 

[billt460]

Greenspan was also a proponent of a rising tide lifts all boats. History shows if you give wealthy people more money, they keep more money.

That's because they generally are a lot smarter with it when they get it. And there is no way socialism is going to level that playing field.

 

[c502cid]

I haven't gone back in the the thread to see if it was posted but Rivian had a huge layoff yesterday.

 

[edyvw]

I had a friend that was laid off from Boeing. In fact he was a higher up in the union that represented the workers there. He died of kidney failure last year. Not too well off I might add. Very sad. With that said, I can show you several prosperous small business owners here.

A capitalistic government isn't set up to offer the "same opportunity" to giant corporations as they are small business. If you want that as a small business owner, the only way you're going to get it is to grow your business exponentially. As I said, it isn't fair, or designed to be. If you want that so bad then move to a socialist country.

The housing crash of 2008 was caused by too many idiots borrowing money they couldn't pay back. The same thing happened to the stock market in 1929. It's nothing new. And you're really stretching all of this to connect it to socialism as something, "better".

You are now trying to find too many excuses. That is absolutely not how free market should work. That means, we actually don’t have as free market as we would like to believe.