Wow, Tesla laying off more than 10% of its world wide workforce, two Top Executives leaving

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SC Maintenance said:
He should just resign. Its like a head coach. It won't help when he is gone - might actually be worse - but the critics won't stop till he leaves.

In a few years he can start an new car company. Maybe a Mr. Fusion powered?

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He's asking shareholders to vote for again for his $56 billion payout. IIRC he is trying to overrule a Delaware judge who voided it earlier this year. Or something along those lines. He's got some pair, especially with what's going on with the stock now..................
 
billt460 said:
Germany is a socialist country, we're not.
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I was sent to the beautiful north of Germany to a smallish town, Rendsburg. My company was considering buying Peter Wolters, now Lapmaster-Wolters. Flew into Paris and then Hamburg. Drove a drop dead gorgeous, brand new black A6 to Rendsburg. My task was to inventory their IT systems and start the integration process.

The Germans are a happy people. At that time, workers were not supposed to work more than 40 hours, to encourage full employment. Yes, life was good. I couldn't help but notice the Koreans would eat their lunch, from a work ethic standpoint.

Of course I don't know if this is representative of more of Germany, and I don't know if it is still this way. It was an incredible business trip and I have friends there to this day.
 
demarpaint said:
He's asking shareholders to vote for again for his $56 billion payout. IIRC he is trying to overrule a Delaware judge who voided it earlier this year. Or something along those lines. He's got some pair, especially with what's going on with the stock now..................
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Musk is asking the board to move Tesla Incorporation from Delaware to Texas being a judge in Delaware ruled against him and his 56 billion shareholder payout.
They are to be asked to vote again on the composition package of 56 billion.
Once in Texas, shareholders would have to bring the same lawsuit again and win the case for the 56 billion.
This is key, Musk doesnt get to move the company from Delaware to Texas. The board has to vote on it.
(something along these lines, I dont follow it much either, complete insanity for a company more and more looking dysfunctional)

Might be a buy is the stock gets slashed in half again and someone takes over the helm from Musk. They got the name, now they need the product, price and public relations.
 
demarpaint said:
He's asking shareholders to vote for again for his $56 billion payout. IIRC he is trying to overrule a Delaware judge who voided it earlier this year. Or something along those lines. He's got some pair, especially with what's going on with the stock now..................
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In a nutshell the judge ruled the board did not have the authority to set the compensation. Having a shareholder vote is the epitomy of fair. If the owners of the company wish to pay $56B, its there money to spend. Every shareholder gets to vote the number of shares they own, so it might be the last pure democracy.

If an individual doesn't like even the idea, or the outcome - there free to sell there shares at market.

My guess is that is the only reason Musk is still there - so the easy way out would be to vote no and wait for him to resign.

We should start a pool? I take 31 days after the vote for no $56B.
 
JeffKeryk said:
Well, that depends on your time frame, now doesn't it. I am a long term investor and my TSLA holdings are in the black.
How about yours?
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Exxon blew them away in the last two years, but I’m not trying to be a pundit. Tesla has a wall of competition and dropping market share in front of them and they still trade at 39 times earnings. We shall see. :cool:
 
alarmguy said:
Musk is asking the board to move Tesla Incorporation from Delaware to Texas being a judge in Delaware ruled against him and his 56 billion shareholder payout.
They are to be asked to vote again on the composition package of 56 billion.
Once in Texas, shareholders would have to bring the same lawsuit again and win the case for the 56 billion.
This is key, Musk doesnt get to move the company from Delaware to Texas. The board has to vote on it.
(something along these lines, I dont follow it much either, complete insanity for a company more and more looking dysfunctional)

Might be a buy is the stock gets slashed in half again and someone takes over the helm from Musk. They got the name, now they need the product, price and public relations.
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Yes! And the bottom line is he is looking for a big payout. Sorry Elon fans, I hope it gets shot down. ;)
 
Snagglefoot said:
We’ll that’s a new low in layoffs. I’ve heard of getting a text. How about Knock knock. Who’s there? Not you anymore.
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There was a joke in our industry that if you come back from lunch on Friday and couldn't badge in, you likely just got laid off.

Oh, 60 days notice only works if they don't pay you. Most companies pay about 2 months of severance and they would rather do that than you come in unhappy and screw things up.

Although layoff sucks, it is business and sometimes it needs to be done (I was laid off last year as well). EV sales are down, interest rate is going up, electricity cost is going up, China (the biggest EV market) is in recession, what do you expect them to do?
 
I am not for $56B in CEO payouts - but in fairness the payout was based on a 2018 agreement that paid Elon some company stock for several checkpoints in market cap - starting at $100B and ending at $650B. At the time market cap was around $50B. So he didn't get anything until the value of the company doubled, and it went up from there.

Now they don't want to pay.

It would be like giving a NFL quarterback a bonus if they won the super bowl, then after they won the super bowl they didn't want to pay.

As for the fall in market cap since - company is still at $500B - or 10X more than when the deal was written. I don't know what the payout is supposed to be at that number - but the $56B was based on $650B market cap.
 
SC Maintenance said:
I am not for $56B in CEO payouts - but in fairness the payout was based on a 2018 agreement that paid Elon some company stock for several checkpoints in market cap - starting at $100B and ending at $650B. At the time market cap was around $50B. So he didn't get anything until the value of the company doubled, and it went up from there.

Now they don't want to pay.

It would be like giving a NFL quarterback a bonus if they won the super bowl, then after they won the super bowl they didn't want to pay.

As for the fall in market cap since - company is still at $500B - or 10X more than when the deal was written. I don't know what the payout is supposed to be at that number - but the $56B was based on $650B market cap.
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It really depends on how you look at it. Do you look at the CEO as just an employee or do you look at him as a commission based sales person?

If you have an agreement with the sales person and he got you 10x the amount of sales, you probably wouldn't be able to negotiate down the amount you need to pay him. I know a lot of the best talents work in some of the best companies because they are not frugal in paying them what they are worth. Go to a company that has a pay cap and their best talents would leave after they peaked. I've seen that happens in many companies in my career.
 
edyvw said:
What is wrong with Tesla? Stock $157.36 compared to Toyota $234.06,
Earnings: Tesla: 10.12, TM: $43.03bln.

Nothing is wrong with other manufacturers. It is like arguing that stock market is economy.
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You’re missing the major point of your post.
There are far more shares of stock sharing the earnings of Tesla at that price, then shares, sharing the profits of Toyota motor at Toyota share price.
This is called the price earnings ratio.
Toyota motor has a PE of 10
Tesla after the stock getting hammered for the last couple years still has a PE of 36

That means there are 250% more shares of Tesla stock for the 10 billion in earnings than Toyota for their 43 billion in earnings.
I’m driving right now, but this should make sense, if Tesla had $30 billion in profit the PE would be much closer to Toyota PE of 10
All that extra fluff in Tesla stock is based on what the shareholders think the company is going to be worth in the future, which is pure speculation and been going down the toilet for two years now on a company that only made money in three years of it’s almost 15 year public stock existence.

The speculation brought its PE up to 90 in an industry where 5 to 10 is the normal. Now that prospects are looking so lousy it’s share price has been cut by over 60% and that lowers the P/E ratio to the current 36%

Once the share price gets down to 50 it will enter the range of traditional automobile manufacturers and as of right now it’s not even worth 50 in the traditional sense because the traditional manufacturers are doing much better than Tesla looking forward.

I don’t want to be quoted in the future, I’m just saying what is as far as I’m concerned today.

Other people knew they thought they knew the future when the stock was as much as 150% higher than it is today.
Nobody knows the future, and that is why the stock no longer commands the price it sold for and that is reflected in the downward trend over the past couple years.

They have lost all credibility and the only way I see to restore it is get rid of the CEO, as well as some board members and get some new fresh blood in . The company had great promise and all they did the past couple years is muddle around in quicksand going nowhere.
The CEO has turned into a narcissist and needs to go in order to save the company from languishing
 
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alarmguy said:
You’re missing the major point of your post.
There are far more shares of stock sharing the earnings of Tesla at that price, then shares, sharing the profits of Toyota motor at Toyota share price.
This is called the price earnings ratio.
Toyota motor has a PE of 10
Tesla after the stock getting hammered for the last couple years still has a PE of 36

That means there are 250% more shares of Tesla stock for the 10 billion in earnings than Toyota for their 43 billion in earnings.
I’m driving right now, but this should make sense, if Tesla had $30 billion in profit the PE would be much closer to Toyota PE of 10
All that extra fluff in Tesla stock is based on what the shareholders think the company is going to be worth in the future, which is pure speculation and been going down the toilet for two years now on a company that only made money in three years of it’s almost 15 year public stock existence.

The speculation brought its PE up to 90 in an industry where 5 to 10 is the normal. Now that prospects are looking so lousy it’s share price has been cut by over 60% and that lowers the P/E ratio to the current 36%

Once the share price gets down to 50 it will enter the range of traditional automobile manufactures and as of right now it’s not even worth 50 in the traditional sense because the traditional manufacturers are doing much better than Tesla looking forward.
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I am pointing out that there is a lot one could take out of each number and say: you see.
However, what you said: speculation. It is the name of the game.
As I said, trend is gone. It is not anymore trendy to own Tesla. Now, Tesla has to sell product that makes sense, that is assembled properly etc.
The Cybertruck was not only a failure from an engineering standpoint. It became social media failure. It became a punching bag that people are starting to associate company with.

Some might say, big boys knew better.
 
demarpaint said:
He's asking shareholders to vote for again for his $56 billion payout. IIRC he is trying to overrule a Delaware judge who voided it earlier this year. Or something along those lines. He's got some pair, especially with what's going on with the stock now..................
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He and the board are trying to meet the disclosure requirements that Delaware judge previously ruled as insufficient. Basically they're saying "We fixed the problem and want another go".
 
JeffKeryk said:
I was sent to the beautiful north of Germany to a smallish town, Rendsburg. My company was considering buying Peter Wolters, now Lapmaster-Wolters. Flew into Paris and then Hamburg. Drove a drop dead gorgeous, brand new black A6 to Rendsburg. My task was to inventory their IT systems and start the integration process.

The Germans are a happy people. At that time, workers were not supposed to work more than 40 hours, to encourage full employment. Yes, life was good. I couldn't help but notice the Koreans would eat their lunch, from a work ethic standpoint.

Of course I don't know if this is representative of more of Germany, and I don't know if it is still this way. It was an incredible business trip and I have friends there to this day.
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I never worked more than 36 hrs a week, 30 working days (6 weeks) paid vacation, 13 months pay plus a holiday bonus and about 15 paid holiday days.
 
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