Wow, is this true about GM?

[labman]

Originally Posted By: mstrjon32
Originally Posted By: Scdevon
At least in the 80's and 90's, there was a tremendous difference in build quality between Japanese cars and domestics. Anyone who doesn't think so never spent 12 years in a dual brand dealership (Toyota / GM) as a line technician seeing the side-by-side comparison which was frankly a little frightening.


Growing up we had a number of GM cars, mainly Buick Regal's and Olds' Cutlasses. All of them turned the odometer at least once and were sold in perfectly serviceable condition. I myself have owned 80's, 90's, and 00 GM W-body cars, and while they haven't been perfect they've been good cars. Sold my last one with 194K, running fine with all the accessories working.

A friend of mine has been put through the wringer with his 1999 Toyota 4Runner, transmission has been failing intermittently for thousands of miles, and finally started refusing to engage gear. It also had a number of other issues, like a failed starter, a busted power window antenna, a SES light for the emissions system, etc. Of course, his thought is "it was a good car" and he bought another Toyota.

Had it been a GM I can imagine the "what a piece" comments and the advice from all the so-called "experts" telling him to buy foreign.

The only thing Toyota has over GM is a marketing machine set to "brainwash".


Don't forget the anti American press.

 

[d00df00d]

The "brainwashing" campaign would have had no basis, and the press would have had nothing to say, if there were no real quality difference. You can't just tell millions of people that their cars are reliable when they aren't.

If there is any injustice, it is that SOME GM brands were still good but still got lumped in with all the ones that Toyota and Honda beat.

Now this trend is reversing. Domestics are getting better -- MUCH better. And what is the "anti-American" press doing? They are churning out positive reviews of domestic cars as fast as the "brainwashed" public can handle them.

Not everything has to be an underdog story.

 

[Kestas]

Some industry experts have said that the influx of imports that started back in the early 80s actually kicked-started the American automakers in the butt, forcing them to compete with the japanese quality, efficiency, and reliability that defined these imports. In a way, you can thank the japanese for the high level of quality that we have with our American designs.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
Some industry experts have said that the influx of imports that started back in the early 80s actually kicked-started the American automakers in the butt, forcing them to compete with the japanese quality, efficiency, and reliability that defined these imports. In a way, you can thank the japanese for the high level of quality that we have with our American designs.

Of course.

It's not that the Big Three couldn't build high quality cars. They always could, and they did. They just didn't build enough until it was too late to change public opinion.

 

[NJC]

Originally Posted By: BrianWC
Originally Posted By: CompSyn
Saab automobiles be constructed to last at least 20-years.

That's why the lifespan of an 80's vintage 900's headliner was 5 minutes.

I'd laugh at that comment if I wasn't suffering from it as well. Surely Saab and Volvo shared the same environmentally friendly "5 minute" glue.

 

[JohnBrowning]

I do not know if I believe it as the norm. I aprenticed for one year between closeing my Shop and going of to college the first time in Electronic Repair shop. All of the trade related materials usualy contained things that said that if left untouched and used as planed that electronics in most consumer goods where good for 125 years of use. It was power surges,litning strikes, mechanical failure inside electronic devices and modifications that where at the root of most electronic parts failures.

Now the shop I was working in did mostly radar repair, commerical radio stations, amature radio repair and modifications and other work that most other shops could not repair like old obsolete gear and surface mount devices etc..... I easily had tubed amature gear that I was working on that was 50 years old or older and it was almost always something simple like a dryed out capacitor or a broken vaccum tube etc.....

With VCR's and it was the mechanicals that failed most often. I dare say about 65% of the stuff that came into the shop not the commercial stuff was damaged by lightning strikes and power surges!Folowed by people reverse polarizing something ie wired something backwards!

 

[JohnBrowning]

No as to the GM thing......I worked for them right out of college and for some time. They did not so much plan for the parts to fail so much as they planed to design them to just barely make it through warranty validation process! So if too many of a given part where making well passed the warranty validation process they would redesign the parts cheaper and cheaper until they hit their magic number.

For instance I had a friend that worked in Cadillacs instrument cluster design and interior design. His instrument clusters always lasted too long so if 70% of his clusters made it past the 3 year 36,000 mile validation testing they would make him go back and redesign it cheaper and cheaper....He once put felt lining around all the plastic to plastic contact points to prevent the cabin from having any squeks and rattles ever as the plastic aged and shrank. It increase the cost of the dash by 1 penny and his boss was forced to make him get rid of it. It would have almost guranteed that the dash would never squeak or rattle but all GM cared about was the first 3 years and 36,000 miles! He decided to quite shortly after that he could not take being forced to constantly cheapen his designs over and over and over again it was just too much for him to be forced to design junk!

I have seen GM have 3 or more redesigns to try and fix a problem. The funny thing is they would keep calling it the 2nd design even if it was actually the 3rd or 4th...I would often come across 3 different 2nd designs!!!! They hated to admits that it took more then 2 tries to get it right!LOL Usually the 2nd design that was put out to take care of recalls where normally the first design that the engineer put forward but was forced to cheapen. The problem is that their are too many bean counters and non-car people in key executive postions. Car's are not contact lens or blenders and need a distintly different approach.

GM's recent improvement in quality is mostly due to hiring the retired head of Toyota's quality control as an independent contractor like I was. He has drastically improved GM's validation process which by default is improving their entire powertrain's quality.

GM did not have when I worked their a good means of tracking out of warranty repairs. They did not care basically so they had no idea how many poor designs they had and how many times each years their where back order's for out of warranty repair parts. I often brought this to my Executives attention and he was always astonished that they had no internal means of tracking this information!I could tell you some real horror stories about my years at GM.

Out of all the domestics Chrysler had the best engine validation process of the three and Ford was second and GM was always last. I think most companies that are high on the quality list usualy have a 7-10 year life cycle designedinto their vechiles.

 

[mechtech2]

Since many of those '50s cars are holding up OK, they must not be that bad.
Consider the source -michael moore.
Now I have to go wash my hands after typing his name.